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**Laertes** · October 4, 2001, 05:18

Re: My Strategy

Rather than 2020 coming too soon, you are "wasting" some time by the choices you make, which are delaying you.

Then the first thing I build in that city is a phalanx (warrior if I don't have Bronze Working).

Most people at this level would build a warrior first. This means you get your first settler out 5 turns quicker, and the same in all future cities. I tend to rely on finding an archer or chariot from a hut and using those for a combination of defence and exploring.
Are you doing any exploring - dont keep all your mobile units garrisoned.

Switch to monarchy as soon as possible.

You are not getting monarchy asap. The required techs are Ceremonial Burial, COde of Laws and Alphabet. The game usually makes you pick up something off this track en route to Monarchy, giving a total of 4. Your tech path shows Monarchy as your 8th discovery.

Always try to get the Great Library.

Most players at this level avoid the GL, as it slows your research when the other civilisations discover things that you do not need at that time.

You do not say which wonders you focus on, nor your attitiude to Caravans. You should consider picking up Currency-Trade early on, after some military sciences, and then building lots of food caravans to rush build Hanging Gardens, Sun Tzu and perhaps the Great Wall, and maybe Lighthouse and Magellans, if you want to conquer the world.

Caravans take on a whole other dimension for Republic-Democracy, which others can better explain. But maybe you have already figured that out given your success with the Space SHip route.

**Edward** · October 4, 2001, 11:03

Dimorier Maximus,

Great work with the 4 city spaceship!

I agree with Fergus Horkan's assessment of areas in which you can improve and his overall comment - no delays.

At some point you will need phalanxes to defend your cities but time and settling new cities is so important in the early game that I generally start off with warriors.

It's good to see that you're building settlers to found new cities in the early game. Civ2 rewards large civs.

2 or 3 defenders plus a counter-attacker in every city is way too much (IMHO) unless you're in the mid to late game and your city borders an AI who attacks often. You can get away with just one defender in interior cities. Pre-republic you may need some warriors for martial law. There are other things (settlers for more cities sooner, explorers to get huts and to inhibit the AI from expanding, caravans for wonders or trade, ...) that are more worth your time and shields, especially in the early game.

Overlap seems to be a personal preference. ICSers intentionally overlap. Some people overlap special resources to share them between cities. You're in very good company if you find overlapping to be an anathema on purely aesthetic grounds or due to perfectionism or a compulsion to avoid "waste".

The Great Library used to be my favorite wonder. However, as Fergus Horkan points out, any tech you get via the Great Library that's not on your current research path is slowing down your research. (The cost to research your next tech depends on how many techs you already have - including "free" techs from the Great Library.) Not only do you not need all the techs, but WHEN you get your techs is very important. The Great Library takes away your control of your research.

I, too, think you're researching monarchy too late. It looks like your research path is:
1. bronze working for phalanxes (and Colossus?)
2. literacy for the Great Library
3. mysticism (why? improved temples? Oracle?)
4. monarchy

I usually go for:
1. monarchy
2. trade (for caravans for wonders)
3. techs for early wonders.

I think you should try to make monarchy your top goal and research early wonder techs only when you can't research something towards monarchy. While you may feel you're going for monarchy early, you can go for it even earlier. Monarchy
1. reduces your corruption and waste
2. increases your production from special squares and from improved terrain
3. lets you crank up your science (or taxes) to 70%
The earlier you get it, the longer these advantages are working for you.

What are the most vital things to making the Republic -> Democracy Space Race thing work in y'alls opinion?

1. Preparation. Before going republic, you need to have only one military unit per city in the field (unless they're supported by Shakespeare's Theater or in a fortress near a city). You should have a temple in every city. Also, I often switch just after getting a happiness wonder since the switch really hits hard in the happiness department.

2. Don't make the switch too late. Switch as soon as you've founded all your cities. (Switching before then really cramps expansion since settlers start eating two foods each.)

3. Take advantage of "We Love"-ing up your population. Under a republic/democracy you can temporarily crank up your luxury rate, celebrate in every city, and grow every one to size 8 (the limit without aqueducts). Fiddling with your luxury rate and looking at hour attitude advisor will tell you the minimum luxuries you need. This does take preparation since your quickly expanding cities prematurely run into happiness (courthouses are a cheap "happiness" improvement if your a democracy) and food (coastal cities can use a harbor and thereby avoid having to waste time irrigating) problems. However it's effects are incredible.

4. Deliver a lot of caravans to make trade routes while a republic/democracy. I can't overstate this. Until you have 3 trade routes for a given city, a caravan from that city is generally better than anything else you can build. Even after that, a constant stream of caravans makes your research rate skyrocket. (When you get your delivery bonus in gold coins, you get an equivalent number of research beakers.)

What are the most important things to making Monarchy -> Communism -> Fundamentalism World Conquest thing work?

For world conquest (as you already know) the sooner you start the better. You can get a good early army via aggressive hut hunting. I generally go for
1. monarchy
2. trade (for wonder-building caravans)
3. Hanging Gardens
4. Sun Tzu's War Academy
5. Michaelangelo's Chapel & crusaders

If you've founded a lot of cities on your way to Mike's, you should be able to make a lot of crusaders, even if you haven't developed your land or cities. You can achieve victory by superior numbers. Crusaders can move two square, usually eliminating the need for sieges (tedious one-move phalanxes, catapults, and fortress building) and generally speeding your conquest. Make sure you have a decent attacking force (8 or so attackers if you wait for crusaders) before you begin your assault. Don't be afraid of heavy losses.

While conquering I'll slowly get the techs for the Statue of Libery (communism/fundamentalism) and Leonardo's Workshop (eventually upgrade to dragoons).

The Statue of Liberty is the key to getting communism/fundamentalism early. Once you have the Statue, your happiness problems are over (no more riot factor under these advanced governments). Use fundamentalism and maxed taxes for conquering. You can temporarily switch to communism if you need a tech (say leadership or railroad).

Unlike with AC, research is not an overriding goal. You don't need a SSC and all it's trade/research wonders. You won't need the Great Wall since you'll always be on the offensive. You don't need graneries or any city improvements (except maybe a temple). These'll all just delay your start. If you start early, you'll be surprised how little resistance you get once you've toppled your first few cities. It's much more effective to attack sooner rather than wait and research better units or build up your cities.

While some players conquer the world with hut units, I find that I'd rather have a number of (admittedly small and crummy) cities to constantly churn out units. But with a number of cities (plus all the ones you capture) you either need communism/fundamentalism (which don't come until democracy's Statue) or a couple happiness wonders. Sun Tzu eliminates the need to build barracks in all your cities (a drain on coins that could be spent on crusaders, but more importantly a delay before conquering).

**freshman** · October 4, 2001, 17:06

I've developed a pretty decent conquer strategy. I can usually conquer by 600AD on a normal sized map, Deity level.
Forget communism, fundamentalism. Just stay in Monarchy the whole time.
Go ICS which means build cities 1 space away as fast as possible and keep them at size 2 with hopefully like 5 production.
Don't irrigate or mine - just build cities and road them up together.
Spread across your continent.
You'll need Map Making for triemes to conquer off continent.
You'll need a good 2 movement attack guy, like a knight or crusader.
Once you've got those, stop researching.
Only wonders to build:
Hanging Gardens - to support 20-25 cities hapiness-wise (note : you may have to move your garrisons outside your city to maintain happiness; usually a warrior/horseman)
Sun Tsu's - for vet units
Lighthouse - optionally to get your triemes off continent easier
Marco Polo's - to exchange maps with all civs so you can immediately destroy them.

Thats it. Kick butt. (Oh - and have some diplomats to take out city walls)
If you attack early enough with crusaders, nobody will have good units to defend with. Make sure you don't give Feudalism to anyone.

Of course if you play on a small map, just tip huts and get units, and kick - should be much faster game than 600AD....

**Blaupanzer** · October 4, 2001, 18:46

Freshman, I take it you generally play on a large map? Otherwise, what's the challenge?

Dimorier, on a large map the AI can get away from you, especially if they are displaced far enough. Getting to Monarchy helps city growth, income, and production. So get there early.

If going for conquer, the key is the SoL, permitting early Comm/fundy. Note that those govs are not happiness freaks. Very useful can be the GL (letting you collect more taxes or spread more luxuries) and Da Vinci (so as to update old units instantly). As you want your attackers to be vets, barracks or Sun Tzu's are useful although Leonardo's undermines that to some degree, because the promoted units don't retain their veteran status.

If going for AC, keys are SETI and Hoover's. SETI helps you get those last space techs quick, and Hoover gets you clean power everywhere, without separate plants. Any player can build Apollo's. Everyone gets the map, everyone starts the race the same turn. When changing govs without the SoL, be sure to pay attention to the Oedo years. Remember on AC games that the AI are all coming for your capitol the second you launch. Having a city near their capitols helps too, in case you need to go for one of theirs. I try to decapitate the other powers (seize their capitols) while I'm finishing the Apollo program. This usually helps my cause by undermining the AI ability to rush build. (However, in one game, one of the AI powers launched without having built a new palace, creating a new capitol. If I hadn't been sure my ship would land before his, I might have been stuck trying to take every city of his in 16 years. So all plans have some potential holes.)

Good Luck.

Question, all: If you turn Bloodlust on, does the game time still expire in 2020 (or whatever, depending on level)?

**Scouse Gits** · October 4, 2001, 19:46

Dimorier Maximus

Priority 1 - Monarchy
Priority 2 - Trade

Once you have gained the above techs you are in a position to follow the game of your choice. There are many good strategies from here onwards. But you must escape the restrictions of despotism as early as possible. You need Trade to build the Wonders of your choice and to increase your gold and science.

The Great Library. No! Edward said it all above. A better plan is to spend two caravans less and build Marco Polo's Embassy. With this Wonder you can pick and choose the techs you need, obtain maps and keep an eye on the AI. The intelligence MPE presents allows you to manipulate the choices of your early game research.

For instance, suppose you are anxious to get Monotheism. When you finish the research of Polytheism - you have all the prerequisites - but the menu for the next research doesn't offer Mono. However, it does offer Searfaring (which you know you can swap with the Vikings), so start on Seafaring and exchange techs. Next turn you will see a refreshed menu which should include Monotheism.

---------------

SG(2)

**Dimorier Maximus** · October 8, 2001, 14:53

Thanks for all your help guys. I'll have to try these things before Civ3 comes, out and I stop playing Civ2. I wonder if these strategies will work in Civ3 just as well?

There will be no caravans in Civ3, so probably not. Oh well. I guess we'll just have to figure out some new strategies.

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