When to go from Perfectionist to Conqueror?

[Hawkx9]

This will be my first post on this forum, so hello. I've been reading and reading and, as a result, my play is better than ever. That's not to say I could stand up in MP.

My question is this...
I'm very much a perfectionist and would like the opinion of other such players as to city placement and aggression. For instance, do you overlap your city radii at all? Do you construct a "solid block" with the radii or do you seek out superior city plots, even if they're a little farther away?
What about aggression? When will you (if ever) switch to a militaristic stance? I suppose one situation would be if someone is infringing upon your content, but what if taking their cities puts you above your 'optimal' city #, or they have bad placement? Disband the newly conquered city? That seems a little counterproductive.

All thoughts are appreciated.
[This message has been edited by Hawkx9 (edited June 08, 2000).]

[Black Bart]

I don't mind overlapping to get special squares- wheat, buffalo etc. In fact I rarely build a city unless it has at least 1 special square. It's just not worth it in the long run. But early on I build my first few fast, so sometimes I miss optimum placement. I try to utilize every single special square in my territory.

As for aggression. I am a perfectionist most of the game. My only conflicts are defensive. Usually around mobile warfare, I'll switch to fundy to conquer the world. Sometimes earlier if the AI is close behind and building a large army.

As for being attacked earlier than mobile warfare. I usually don't conquer AI cities until I'm in fundy. So I don't worry about their pathetic cities with little land value. I play a purely defensive war with offensive units. This is assuming they are on another continent or far away. If they do happen to be very close to my empire, I will conquer them. This is usually easier because they keep sending dips to steal my tech if they are close.

[SilverDragon]

quote: do you overlap your city radii at all? Do you construct a "solid block" with the radii or do you seek out superior city plots, even if they're a little farther away?

On large maps, I use up my entire continent, but without too much overlapping. In these I will expand to four or five continents, and then attack the AI, although I build a spaceship for the win. On small maps, I play with an OCC style city, with 3 helper cities. I build HG, KRC, Oracle, and Leo's in my city as well as the usual OCC wonders. Sometimes I build mike', to stop the most powerful AI in the game from getting it. For both of the above, I go to AC for the win, but I also have my BC bloodlust style, where I close in for the kill early. Then I just build 6 cities, and build barracks, elephants, etc.

quote: What about aggression? When will you (if ever) switch to a militaristic stance?I suppose one situation would be if someone is infringing upon your content

On my large map game, I will only attack the AI if I can't find any open continents to expand to, because the AIs took them all. Also, if the AIs are on my continent, they don't make it past 2000 BC . On the small map bloodlust, it's pretty self-explanatory, but on the small map game with four cities, I keep peaceful relations, usually alliances. I will only attack the AI in that game if I have already launched my ship, and they are building one that might be faster.

quote: what if taking their cities puts you above your 'optimal' city #

What optimal number?

quote: or they have bad placement?

I'm here to kick AI butt, not rearange his city sites! Who gives a damn?

[cavebear]

I usually play a combination of perfectionism and expansion. My frontier cities are in expansion mode, and my interior cities are built up as best I can get them for production and tech research.

I don't often switch to a military mode unless it is required by agressive acts. If I can get Leo's with a Democracy, I usually don't have any military problems. Even without Leo's, a Demo with good tech research can stay ahead of most attacking players.

I try to build my cities with edge-on city radii, but I will allow for locations that give multiple special resources. If a 1 or 2 square gap is left between cities, a fortress with a defensive unit is usually enough to prevent opponents from sneaking in between the cities, and it exposes passing dips/spies.

On ocassion, I will overlap 1 or 2 city squares if it includes a good resource like gold or wine or silk, especially in the early game. Since you have fewer workers then, and building settlers changes the available worker population, it can be very useful to be able to keep a good resource active in one city or the other.

As far as taking poorly-placed opponent cities goes, I've been known to disband a small one and use the settler to move it a couple of squares. In the long run, it is often worth it. Sometimes, I will move a city (or establish a second small one) just to get water access across a long pennisula. The savings in travel for ships carrying units or caravans can pay off handsomely.

I have no "optimal" city number. More is better.

The more I play this game, the more I realize that early PG or demographic ratings are irrelevent. The only important thing about a city is what it will be producing way in the future.

[Hawkx9]

Concerning the city #... I like to hold it to 8. I find that by the time I get the eighth city up and running (with adequate defense, a settler, and maybe a temple/marketplace) it's time to crank out the caravans and watch the science skyrocket. Having too many cities slows down the game incredibly and makes defense/road-networking tedious.

Overlapping radii... I'm finding that, with the exception of the SSC, it's better to overlap radii a little. Depending on the goal of the individual city of course, most "supporter" cities won't need to grow past size 12; otherwise, unhappiness will become a problem (depending on multiple variables).

I think it's appropriate to mention that I enjoy playing on King level and am not the most experienced player in the world. However, I think the best strategy for me might be this...
Go for 8 cities, the capital (usually) being the SSC with the other 7 as supporters, growing to size 12 only. Trade and give away techs to keep everyone relatively equal until a certain predetermined tech level (undecided), rush for Tactics (or some other superior unit), and change to Communism, invoking WLT*D in the SSC for the trade bonus. Communism is flexible enough to allow a respectable science flow to hit AC in a reasonable time, yet has the offensive power and disorder suppression to overcome the AI.
I know this is nothing new to most/all of you, but I thought I'd just give it a whirl. What tech level/unit should I go for before switching to Commie? Cavalry appears to be a popular choice, yet comes before modern warfare, which is a little late for my taste.

Disclaimer: All of the above are only my opinions, of course. I have read practically every strat selection; I'm simply looking for opinions on the specifics.

Danke.
[This message has been edited by Hawkx9 (edited June 08, 2000).]

[Steve Clark]

Welcome Hawkx9! As you will shortly find, folks here have opinions on everything and they vary from one extreme to the other. And that's the genius of Civ2 - they are all valid!

You posted very good questions. For me, I try to find the best spots for cities within a region. I don't overlap since I only build 8-12 cities. And whenever possible, I try to have all of the city's radii covering as many of the squares in that region (easier to defend and easier to manage corruption).

As far as the decision to go militaristic, I believe you have to decide that very early on. It makes a difference to go for certain wonders and your relationship with enemy civs. In both cases, setting up a Super Science City and Monarchy is the best way to start. But after that is when you should make your strategic decision to go bloodlust or AC.

By the way, if you haven't seen this by now, remember to build a gazillion caravans. And when you have built more than you need - BUILD SOME MORE.

[jpk]

I try to take advantage of good city locations even if they are a little bit apart. Sometimes along the coast I'll have overlapping cities. If I've got nothing better to do near the end of the game I might build cites to fill in some of the gaps.

In what follows I will assume that you are playing perfectionist on a large multicontinent map against the AI. In this situation there is one extraordinary time for conquest. If you get radio before any AI civilization gets flight you have absolute control of the sky. There are two things you can do with airports.

You can fly freight from one of your cities to another city on a distant continent (both cities have to have airports). In short order this solves your every financial problem. Just ship freight between your cities, preferably cities that are very distant. Don't waste a lot of time on over land or over seas routes to AI civilizations. These freight units allow you to pull way ahead of the AI in technologies.

Secondly you can either have a prepositioned city near an AI civilization or capture one of theirs, build an airport and then have every one of your major cities work on offensive units to fly into that city. Since you probably have superior offensive units you can smash your way through the empire. If the Senate forces you into a cease fire or a preace treaty use the proceeds of your freight trade to bribe cites. As you capture cities build airports so you can fly in units at an even faster rate. Once you have an airport and, perhaps, barracks build diplomats or spies in these cities. You will need them and the recently captured cities will not be able to readily support more than a few fighting units.

Once you capture the majority of the cities of some empire stop flying in units and let units that are already on the ground or units built by the recently captured cities mop up the remainder of that empire. Also build lots of freight units in those cities so that you can get even more money. Fly these freight units back to your largest cities.

Repeat this procedure as often as desired. It works best if you start on the most powerful AI civilization and work your way to the weakest.

Even if you intend to launch a space ship this is a good strategy. On large maps it is not uncommon for an AI civilization to have 20 or more cities. It is also not uncommon for an AI civilization to steal space flight and other technologies required for a space ship. Any 20 city AI civilization that gets all these technologies has an uncanny ability to build and launch a fast space ship in extremely little time. A civilization with 5 to 10 cities is much less of a threat.

Recall that I mentioned prepositioned cities near AI civilizations. Early in the game you may wish to have a vigorous search for goodie huts. If you tip enough of them, you will get cities near most of the AI civilizations. Such cites will work acceptably well. Station diplomats in these cities and build court houses so that the corruption is not too high. With luck you won't lose any of them to an AI civilization. If you do you, then can bribe it back whenever it is convenient.

Once you get Michelangelo and Bach and are in Democracy don't worry about too many cities. The main purpose of small cities scattered all over the map is to be sources and sinks for freight units. Make sure you ship them to distant and hopefully large cities.

Hopefully this message is worth $.02.