Republic Vs Monarchy

[Alexander's Horse]

Okay here's the situation large sprawling civ - over 20 cities in multiplayer game with 4 others. Early happy wonders gone. Its around 1000 AD. Falling behind in population. Which government is better?

[Makeo]

I'd change back to Despotism. It is clearly the best government for you in this situation. Your pop will be caught up in no time.

[Smash]

depends on the difficulty level(I'll assume deity level) and whether or not you have happy infastructure(temples,colliseum,market,bank,stock exchange,cathedral) AND trade routes.Trade routes are very important.Especially for representative governments.

if you have all that then Republic.If not you will have to run very high luxuries so stay Monarchy until this infastructure is built.

also depends on city sizes.Temple and market with trade routes should keep cities out of disorder up to size 7 or 8 with 20 or 30% luxuries depending on terrain and specials

Do you have The Statue?Is it still available?is wonder sharing allowed?Maybe you could make a deal with The Statue owner to "borrow" it for a turn and go Commie.

without happy wonders you really have to prepare for representative governments.Unless you like 50,60% luxuries.

If you are playing king level,remember that the first 3 are content.That is equivalent of Mich's without Theology.So the switch is much easier.

Do you have many units in the field?(not in fortress')In Republic,first one makes a happy citizen content.After that,everyone makes an unhappy citizen.Just another thing to consider.

A Monarchy can keep up in science and gold but you have to build and deliver many caravans/freights and build courthouses to curb corruption.This takes alot of time and effort though.

generally there isn't much use switching to representative unless you can immediately use "we love" to celebrate to at least size 8.

probably raised more questions than answers

[SmartFart]

Indeed...using WLTAHD in despotism,your population will *boom*.
Don't forget to pillage your irrigated fields to gain more food.

[Alexander's Horse]

Smash, thanks. I can't say too much about some of your points because opponents are watching Yes, the game is Deity. Problem I have is, I've been in an expansion phase and I have a lot of cities under 3 in pop. Should I concentrate on expanding the core cities under republic or slip back to monarchy until these cities are 3 in size? Other demogs are good. A ssume no access to wonders - the other 4 players are allied so I'm at a big disadvantage in the wonders race and pretty much given up on it, butI have GL.

[Smash]

well if you are managing 20 odd cities with those extra unhappies in Monarchy then you are doing pretty good, all things considered.

probably the time to go into development mode for awhile.Settlers can road and irrigate(must be 1x production) while you develop a bit.They can also road and irrigate future city sites.After Republic, those "extra" unhappies will disaapear for the most part and you can enter expansion mode again.

not having happy wonders is a disadvantage but you can still build caravans.They are the most powerful unit(next to settler itself) you have.Provided your borders are secure and you are not threatened.

Problem is-you build all that infastructure and someone comes along with bunch-o-diplomats and tears it all down.

If you have been sacrificing the wonder race to maintain a strong military,maybe now is the time to use it.Sometimes,slowing others down is the best way to keep up

wait a sec...the other 3 are allied?Hmmmm...thats not good.They must be scared of something

perhaps you could undermine this unholy alliance and sway one to your vision of the world?This would most definitely be a priority for me.3 vs 1? Scoundrels
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited May 23, 2000).]

[Alexander's Horse]

Smash, thanks again. Lots of food for thought, for my rivals as well I mention no names, makeo.

Oh, and its 2X 2player alliances in a 5 player game - I'm all alone

But my military is very strong and I'm fairly secure, having a whole continent to myself on a large map


<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited May 23, 2000).]</font>
[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited May 23, 2000).]

[Smash]

Switzerland eh?That can be a problem in odd numbered games.A 3 way alliance might be a possibility,but they would probably treat you as a "junior" partner.

Put an "open for business" sign up and welcome ALL caravans.Maybe a small levy could be assessed.

perhaps you should make an effort to control the seas.

should be a challenging game.You'll probably learn alot

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In a MP game I only care about getting a good ally. Nothing else is as important.....Xin Yu

[Alexander's Horse]

Any other views out there? I might be playing tonight

Smash, I'll be on icq in about 3 hours time, maybe we could discuss further then. Since I'm the only player without an ally in this game, I don't have anyone to brainstorm with.

[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited May 23, 2000).]

[Oldman]

Ah, Is communism not an option? It's a great 1/2 way govt!! and you said you've got a great military, so a republic will cause you more trouble than it's worth with a military!!!!!! and communism has virtually no corruption, so you could put your luxuries up, WLTCD sore point maybe!??! but if you do, you might be able to get republic trade with commie military support and contentment!!

But cause of the military, i'd say avoid republic, especially if you're out exploring or at war with them?!?!

Good luck all the same!!! i hope you kicks those guys arses, for ganging up on oyu like that!!!!!!!!!!

[Scouse Gits]

I think Smash touched on it - You have a continent to yourself switch all endeavour to becoming THE naval power - then a number of strategies are available such as destroying all opposition coastal cities - interdicting their communications and even the use of inland naval force!!! See the canl thread here!
Good civin'

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[hydey]

some have not met with others yet

[Alexander's Horse]

Just got Copernicus, don't have communism yet.

[Ming]

Just stay in monarchy until you can really take advantage of Republic with WLYD's.
And while you wait, build caravans. And when you have enough caravans, build some more.

The key to taking advantage of WLYD's without the Happiness wonders is to make sure you have marketplaces and Trade Routes. It will give you the money needed to buy the improvements to prepare for WLYD's, and your science will increase a ton!

[DaveV]

AH - Ideally, you should have at least 32 cities when you start cranking the luxuries in Republic. With that number of cities, each city will have a double unhappy (black hat) citizen (black hats start to appear after 16 cities in Republic). Two luxuries will convert a black hat to happy (vs. four luxuries for a red hat), which should make it easier to WLTPD.

Edit: or you may be able to achieve WLTKD under monarchy by cranking the luxuries. Then you'll have republic level trade with martial law and free support. You only need 24 cities to have a black hat in every city with Monarchy.
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited May 23, 2000).]