Artificial Intelligence? More like CHEATER!

[geofelt]

To make the game a challenge at higher levels, the programmers increase the level of cheating. It would be most difficult to do it with fairness. As to production, units, improvements, and wonders are not built city, by city as the human players do, instead, the AI gets the whole shield and gold production to allocate as it sees fit. This is simpler programming, and it also helps tocreate a challenge to the good human player.

[Ming]

Yeah... you pointed out the biggest problem... "it's simpler programming"!

There are many ways they could make the game tougher at higher settings. Heck, just giving the AI access to more sophisticated combat programs at higher levels would do wonders for the game. Watching the computer spit out a unit every turn to attack a position it can't take for 1,000 years is enough to make me laugh...

But alas... it is much easier and cheaper for them to do it the way it was done. So we are the lossers when it comes to a challange. sigh...

[The Mad Viking]

I've only played a few games, (one at each level up to my current large map Emp game) where I am faced with serious AI cheating. Well I'm basically a rookie, and though I'm sure it is worse in Deity, I agree with Steve Clark. Obviously we'd all prefer Artificial Intelligence to the Artificial Idiocy we get, but I'd rather have the handicaps than not.

And if you use the cheat mode for ANYTHING you aren't allowed to complain, let alone throw a hissyfit.

*adopts a holier than thou posture* I have never used the cheat mode for anything, ever. I know I should run a few research tests, but I don't want to have anything to do with the thing. Once you use it, you can always justify it.

But whatever turns you on.

[Ming]

I don't care what people do when they are playing SP. The whole idea of the game is to have fun. If using the cheat menu to make civs disappear, or give yourself tons of tanks is something you consider fun, I don't care.
But, if you are going to post your results to be compared with others, or play MP... then I have a real problem with the cheat menu or some of the other little tricks that most of us agree are illegal

[Steve Clark]

Say Ming, how come we've been getting more OT posters here? Aren't there any diabolical debates going on to keep them busy?

[Ming]

I welcome all the OTF's that want to post ON TOPIC. This is still a Civ site last time I checked

New blood in the On Topic forums is always appreciated, as long as they come here to post On Topic.



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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

[Gatekeeper]

quote: Originally posted by geofelt on 05-15-2000 01:36 PM To make the game a challenge at higher levels, the programmers increase the level of cheating. It would be most difficult to do it with fairness. As to production, units, improvements, and wonders are not built city, by city as the human players do, instead, the AI gets the whole shield and gold production to allocate as it sees fit. This is simpler programming, and it also helps tocreate a challenge to the good human player.

***

Geofelt:

That goes quite a distance toward explaining why the AI can build 600-shield wonders in two or three turns without spending money or using caravans/freights/disbanding units to get what it needs.

If an AI civ has collective shield output of 1000, and it can allocate at will, that certainly does make for a challenge, as does the reduced shield box at higher stages.

CYBERAmazon

***

Everyone:

Thanks for the contributions to this thread. As for myself, I never used the "cheat" menu until seeing — and being unable to explain — AI behavior that just didn't jive, so to speak. The only time I use it now is when my city has three or four veteran spies housed in it and the AI STILL gets your most advanced technology. Sorry, but mobile warfare simply doesn't fit in an Iron Age society.

Never have played multi-player, either. My dial-up Web connection probably isn't steady enough (read: 100 percent of the time) to allow for safe multi-playing. Saving up for a ADSL or cable connection .

CYBERAmazon

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Resistance is futile. Lower your shields and disable your weapons. You will be assimilated into the Borg Collective.

[Thue]

quote: <font size=1>Originally posted by Chainsaw on 05-14-2000 01:50 PM</font> MY opinion about the cheating AI: If the AI wouldnt cheat, what would be the point? One would ALWAYS win in SP, no chance of even a trace of resistance. In my opinion, the AI should be more clever, instead of a cheater. For example more consequent in a war, bulding MANY units, attacking in larger numbers at once, dont offer peace after losing a city or after conquering just some of your cities...this list could go on for a long time. The AI has to cheat, because it doesnt act just slightly intelligent.

He. Try a game of freeciv and get squahed by an (almost) non-cheating AI on the easy level where it has already been purposely limited :P


[This message has been edited by Thue (edited May 18, 2000).]

[poppawoppa]

Recently in a diety game, I had an AI civ take out the final defender with its bomber, and then an engineer walked into the city and took it !!! I didn't knoe that an engineer could do that. They aren't combatants, and of course a bomber cant land in an enemy city with no enemy defenders...and a destroyer or transport cant go into the empty city...so I wonder why could the engineer? Anyone know, or have a bunch of you had this happen?

[Gatekeeper]

Poppawoppa:

It used to happen a lot to me ... that is, until I started slaughtering the bastards whenever they got near territory in wartime.

CYBERAmazon

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Resistance is futile. Lower your shields and disable your weapons. You will be assimilated into the Borg Collective.

[catullus]

Sure, any ground unit except diplo/spy and caravan/freight can take cities. Metoo discovered that the hard way. After that, I've even pulled that stunt myself a couple of times...

C.