My first OCC game

[Xin Yu]

I tried OCC once without going very far. After comparing with Paul's records I felt that my strategy was bad. However I did not notice that he played on a small map! Later I was onto something else and have forgotten about OCC for a long time.

My instinct is that, since your city has 3 specials at least, you should add the second settler to the city after building your first warrior. Your first tech should be pottery, and your first city improvement granary. After granary it will be two more warriors then the Hanging Garden (Switch to Collosus later). Tech path should lead to Monarchy, with Bronze (must finish before Hanging Garden is done), writing, mapmaking, seafaring, currency, trade, masonry, construction as alternatives when you cannot choose the techs lead to Monarchy. Build a settler back after reaching size 5.

[Sten Sture]

Xin - have you checked out Paul's web site? His strat is very much WLT_D based, and doesn't require HG to get happy.

[Steve Clark]

I am surprised that Xin Yu have not mastered OCC. A question though, what does 'add the second settler' and 'build a settler back' mean?

[Sten Sture]

Actuallly he may not mean build HG, just start on it and switch to Col.

Add settler is just taking your second settler and having him join your city to make it a size two, then build one from scratch around size five.

[Paul]

Sten, I think Xin Yu meant that he would start HG and then switch to Colossus when he gets Bronze Working.

Steve, "add the second settler" means that he will add the settler to the city to increase population. He will then later build a new settler. The major disadvantage to this is that your new settler will not be a NONE.

[Edit: Sten beat me to it]
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited May 16, 2000).]

[Sten Sture]

There's a first time for everything.

I wonder if I can get my title changed to "quicker than Paul"

Like anyone would believe me

[Campo]

quote: Originally posted by Sten Sture on 05-16-2000 11:13 AM 3) look weak - don't build a lot of units

Do NONE units count? Between tipping distant huts and bribing a couple Barbs, I had 6 NONEs. I wonder if that was part of the reason the Persians kept attacking me.

[Xin Yu]

Paul: Yes that is a disadvantage, but the initial bonus is pretty big with one more worker on a special. Unless you have a wheet, it suppose to take 10 turns for a city to grow from size 1 to size 2 (irrigation won't help under despotism). Adding the second settler to the city will save you 10 turns at the beginning. I believe under certain situation it can be an option.

[Smash]

there have been several fortnight OCCs where "joining city" was a good plan.Most of the time you want that settler to improve the land so you can celebrate starting at size 3 or 4.

I did a little hut test and I found you were approx 30- 40% more likely to get a non settler if you didn't allready have one.So, joining city early and trying to get a wandering nomad might be good idea.

Look back at that island OCC and see how many wandering nomads are found after the first non settler is gone.I'd say you have a very good chance of finding one fairly early.

[vik]

Personally, I would keep the "NONE" settler under most circumstances, but the above several posts have made some good counter-arguements.

The part I disagree about more in Xin's suggestion is building a granary before building a wonder.

If you do this, you lose out on a whopping 1 (one) gold per turn while you build the colossus. That will add up to enough money to finish rush-buying your temple or library or marketplace. In addition, the merits of owning a granary in OCC are rather dubious, because you only grow your city via We Luv days, and ideally you only do it maybe 3 or 4 times a game.

Once you reach size 4 or 5, with your young republic working irrigated grassland squares, growth due to food-stocking comes pretty quickly even without a granary.

In any event, it Xin's plan sounds interesting enough for me to give it a try.

EDIT: I also realized that you would lose out on quite a few trade arrows when building the granary first. This is probably obvious, but another potential drawback is that, assuming you have no units from huts, building that 2nd settler into the city will lead to instant disorder until that first warrior is built. There is a good chance you will go to a size-3 population before the granary is built, which will lead to more disorder unless you cut back on your science and raise the luxury rate to compensate.
[This message has been edited by vik (edited May 16, 2000).]

[Xin Yu]

vik: let's suppose you play a 4-whale OCC game, and the first advance needs 10 bulbs.
The first turn you set science 60% and luxury 40% to keep the city from revolt.
The second turn put science 60% and tax 40% since your warrior will be ready (your shield production is 5).
The third and fourth turn put science 40% and tax 60%, and keep on building warrior. On the fourth turn your first warrior goes out of the city to explorer.
You should get pottery now.
On fifth turn start building granary, set science to 60% and tax to 40% again. Turn 11, buy a barracks on the way when you have 30 shields and 20 bucks then switch back to granary.
Turn 11, another tech (18 bulbs).
Turn 15, granary ready, just on time to save you half of food box.
Turn 16 the first warrior should be back to city. City grow to size 3 and produce 7 shields and 7 trade icons. Build another warrior.
Turn 18, start building HG.
Turn 21, the third tech (27 bulbs).
Turn 26, city size 4, produce 9 shield and 9 trade. 56 shield towards HG.
Turn 30, the 4th tech (36 bulbs).
Turn 38, city size 5, hire one scientist (total science output 8). City stop growing. Sell granary.
Turn 39, 5th tech (45 bulbs).
Turn 43 Collosus ready. Start building temple. Buy temple. Put the scientist back to work. City start growing again. Start building settler.

The above is based on the situation without any luck from huts.

[Campo]

quote: Originally posted by Sten Sture on 05-16-2000 11:13 AM 4) spend all of your money before you talk to any AI.

Yeah, I learned this the hard way. I was accumulating to buy a wonder and had about 1200 gold, just short of what I needed. I encountered the Persians and they demanded 1000 gold. When I refused, they declared war and killed my horseman and two caravans.

Later, when my treasury was back down to a couple hundred and after the war was over, I encountered them again and they demanded 50 gold. That I could part with.

[Paul]

This would probably work well in a situation with four whales and lots of water where you don't need as much work from your settler. But how would this work out in a situation where you have mostly land?

[vik]

Xin,

Okay, here's how I would have played the same thing, where I save the NONE settler to improve the land. Keep in mind that I am nothing more than average at OCC. It's a pretty interesting comparison, with advantages and disadvantages to both ways. I hope everyone will chime in on anything that stands out to them.

4000bc (turn 1): Rome founded; TLS at 4.0.6; since I have four whales, settler moves to clear jumgle
3950bc (turn 2): researching bronze working
3800bc (turn 5): warrior built; he explores; building warrior
3750bc (turn 6): discovered Bronze working; researching alphabet; leaving all huts alone
3600bc (turn 9): 2nd warrior built; building 3rd
3500bc (turn11): alphabet discovered; researching ceremonial burial
3450bc (turn12): pop=2
3400bc (turn13): 3rd warrior built; building colossus
3250bc (turn16): settler cleared jungle; will road and irrigate next
3200bc (turn17): ceremonial burial discovered; researching code of laws
3000bc (turn21): that warrior dispatched on turn 5 happened to find the greeks. I didn’t trade knowledge or ask for gifts; I just made peace to keep the integrity of this experiment in tact
2800bc (turn25): discovered code of laws; researching monarchy
2700bc (turn27): pop=3
2350bc (turn34): monarchy discovered; REVOLT; researching writing. I could have picked currency, but writing allows the diplomat which is good for incremental rush-buying of units (that 30 gold unit).
2250bc (turn36): Monarchy established; altered TLS to 3.0.7
2000bc (turn41): moved warrior back into city, even though it will be about 6 more turns before pop4
1900bc (turn43): discovered writing, researching literacy
1700bc (turn47): pop=4; colossus built.

My treasury is at 99 gold (surprisingly less than on Xin’s line of play), and in either one or two more turns I will discover literacy (going for early republic). I still have my NONE settler, and so far he has laid four roads and irrigated four squares, not to mention clearing a jungle. My warrior, eligible to explore from 3800-1700bc, has uncovered a lot of ground. At 1750bc, I could have chosen to bump the luxuries up to 10% and let the warrior keep on exploring, but I brought him back to the city anyways. I also cheat-deleted a barbarian archer for fairness in comparison with my first log.

Despite not getting the colossus until 6 turns later, I feel better prepared to jump into Republic and WLTxD. I have contacted another civ, and hopefully they can help me out with either currency, mysticism, or a pre-req for construction. As it turned out, in this case the Greeks did have mysticism, so I’m on the inside track to Philosophy. I would gamble that they would discover masonry or currency before I discover republic. If republic was not a researchable option after literacy, of course I would go with either currency or philosophy.

As far as Xin’s line of play, I also noticed (after the fact) that the exploring warrior could go twice as far without returning, but I didn’t feel like editing it, then. But you’re right, it’s bang-bang right on time with that 3rd warrior being built right as the population goes up. So there is a much better chance of that warrior making contact with the AI if he can move 10 squares instead of just 5.

Lots of things to compare here, and I’m sure other people would play it different. I’ll let some more astute people comment more on it. To play, I used the 4-whale comparison game from Paul’s homepage, deleted all of the Romans’ starting technologies, and moved both the settlers one square to the SouthWest so that they are exactly on the ideal city location.

[Xin Yu]

vik: you are lucky to get 4 straight techs to Monarchy.

My plan gains in tech (about one advance), money (30 gold more), and population (reaching size 5 earlier. After building a settler the pop will return to 5 soon). It loses in exploring (about 15 turns) and terrain improving.
I can adjust my luxury rate to keep the warrior out exploring. This will cost about 30 golds (2 gold to luxury each turn). In this sense my money gain canceled with exploring loss.
Terrain improving only matters after size 5 and Monarchy. It will be more important after republic and construction. Now luck will decide if it is a big deal for my plan: if the AI civs can help me with mapmaking (lead to seafaring) before I get both republic and construction, then I'll be ok (a harbor is all I need); otherwise I'll not be able to use WLTKD to its full benefit.