How do you play this game and actually win?

[Bohlen]

The best advice I can give is this:

Read as much as possible off of this site and take it in. It is because of the posts of all the civ geniuses (i.e. Ming, Smash, WarBeaver4Ever, DaveV, SG, and countless others) that my game has improved so much. Those posts above are exactly what you need to win. Just hang in there and keep at it. You will become an expert with the help of this group of players.

[Jim W]

I'm still playing at Warlord Level. I figure I won't try to get too difficult until I can win most of the time at WL.

I've been trying to keep my mind on expansion. However, I still do a bit of development around each city with each new settler (1 mine, 1 irrigation, that sort of thing.). Once I've got five cities or so, I usually set one settler or two out of the many I've got to building roads to facilitate trade.

Just recently, I've taken to watching the shield production as closely as the food production. (I think it may be something to do with the bright colour of the grain sheaves (back on the farm in my part of the world, we called them "bundles") as opposed to the darker blue of the shield.

Some time ago, I noted the advantage of Monarchy over despotism in terms of taxes and Science, and the advantage of Monarchy over Democracy in terms of the lack of a Senate to prevent me from running those Bad Guys out of my irrigated fields. So I head for Monarchy very quickly, with Bridge Building a close second.

I have not yet been able to really figure out what the trade arrows do, where they come into play, though I can see where they're produced, and manage their increase. As a result, I generally work at food and shields.

I may have downplayed my achievements too severely; I only occasionally find myself with five cities at 1500 AD. I've had worse situations; surrounded by enemies on the continent I start out in, with another enemy inhabiting the nearest land-mass to my own, making expansion very difficult, and necessitating a large concentration on defence.

The game I started just after sending off last night's whine is going a lot better, though I'm still using somewhat of a mix of the Explore-and-found cities and the Explore-found- and-develop cities mode.

As for building caravans without having roads, yes, it can be done, but having roads at least between the major cities is a massive advantage.

And in last night's game, while I was still irrigating a patch where I was about to found my first city, one of my exploring archers tipped over a hut and found an advanced tribe, which declared itself the capital. (Built the palace.) I haven't changed that because that city is in pretty much as good a position for a Science City as my first choice.

Thanks for all the suggestions, and I hope this hasn't been gone on for too long.

Jim W

[My Wife Hates CIV]

A super science city and a caravan production city. A city to support military units (all your units that fight on the front).

Have enough caravans ready to build the wonders in the correct cities.

[Seeker]

Remember that sometimes the best defence is a good offense, i'm sure everyone who plays will agree that on a small or medium sized continent you should conquer your neighbour before they expand and take all the good city spots.

[The Mad Monk]

quote: I still do a bit of development around each city with each new settler (1 mine, 1 irrigation, that sort of thing.)

Jim, this is your problem, right here. you have to remember that mining and irrigation take 5-10 turns a piece; at Warlord, that's 100-200 years. In the time it takes you to do either, you could take that settler, move clear of his home city, and build a new one.

Try this: do nothing with settlers except build cities--no exceptions--until you have at least ten cities. Make certain the first thing you build in each city is your cheapest defender, followed by a settler, followed by yet another settler.

Then sit back and examine the results.

[Scouse Gits]

This may sound wierd, but Smash touched on it.

Play a game of OCC - take one of the good starting maps that have been banded about recently - read Paul's guide - set the difficulty at least one notch higher than you normally play - let the good times flow!

I guarantee that (1) you will win - this is a tremendous boost to the ego and (2) you will see a thousand ways in which you could have done better!

I hasten to add that playing a sleaze will also guarantee a win, but it takes a lot longer and is harder work.
The sort of multicity perfectionism that you describe can most certainly work, but it takes more micromanagement than I can hack.

Good civin'

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[DaveV]

SG2,

1) I start HG after finishing a caravan. Then I use that caravan and three others (built in other cities) to complete HG in one turn. I would rather produce several extra settlers than start HG in the very early game. I never seem to have any problem building HG vs. the AI, since they don't place a high value on that wonder. It could be a different story against humans, though...

2) No. Monarchy first, Trade second. Usually by the time I need Pottery, I've acquired it from a hut or tribute. The only time I would choose to research it is if I couldn't research any techs leading to Monarchy or Trade (and then I'd still hope to pick it up for free before I finished researching it).

Ming, Smash, et al. - I started a thread a long time ago where I concluded that sacrificing some early arrows to build extra cities pays off in the long run.
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/000758.html

[George Garrett]

On the other hand, Jim, you could continue to lose, gratefully, like me.
At that inevitable stage when my civ world crumbles, my citizens either vanished, or vexed, my capital, science, and production centres, tho walled and well defended, fall to the first invader, enemies abound, prospects fade away, that's when I say to my 1/1/1 20th Century warriors "How jolly! - let's quit this mess, and start a new game"

For me the best part of Civ2, is the start on a new random map, with a fresh, black slate: those first few absorbing hours of buildup in a brand-new environment, wondering what the game has in store for me...I know that sooner, or later, I'm going to get clobbered again,(in my Hall of Fame I'm rated "I the Ignominious"), but, I continue to travel, hopefully, and when I eventually stumble into involuntary confrontation with, and eventual conquest by, the 3 strongest AI civs, am I downhearted? -no!
'Cos, as the Barred has it "Now is the Winter
of our discontent-can Springing to a new start be far behind"

It's all them winners who I pity, Jim...ACing blithely in Diety by the Cro-Magnum Age,what have they to look forward to? No travelling hopefully for them - they've arrived!
All the civ world is blase, Jim, except thee and me, and even thee succeeeds sometimes!
[This message has been edited by George Garrett (edited April 18, 2000).]

[Ming]

DaveV... I remember that thread. You laid out the differences quite well.
But one thing you ignored in that thread is that with the extra money generated by increased trade, you can buy those settlers just as fast (if not faster) than you are bulding them. That alone made your comparison not a fair one.

There is no reason to give up on trade at the expense of production. Money can buy shields, so why not have both

[DaveV]

Ming - money can indeed buy shields, but at a 2.5 to 1 discount. Assuming you're maximizing your science, it takes an extra 6.25 arrows to make up for one lost shield (I said this earlier in this thread, in less longwinded fashion). In my early games, the cash generated by my economy is dwarfed by the windfalls from goody huts and tribute. Building more cities means more units out exploring, means a better chance for huts and tribute.

I'm not saying early trade doesn't matter - I'd much rather put a worker on silk, whales, or a rivered forest than a plain forest. But when I'm in expansion mode, I want to *expand*, expecting to catch up on arrows later.

[pikachu]

Jim W: If you are still playing in Warlord level, my suggestion is, 'just listen to the general tips, ignore the specific one'. It is half of your fun trying to figure YOUR strategy (and be beaten promptly by the experts here). Choose your style that you want to adopt and ask for specific advice on the strategy. You want to be a trader? a settler? a horseman? a scientist? a diplomat? Or combination of all that?
I have a weakeness which I still do not manage to overcome, I hope that you won't repeat it because you play against computer. You need a lot of military assets in games with human, but not with computer. Don't get spoiled by computers for keeping too little an army. If you are of the type who like using 12 crusaders to attack a city before gunpowder, just forget my previous comment.

[Ming]

I hear you... But my point is, if you fall behind in arrows, it will be difficult to catch up later. (Plus, the free science from being the first to Philosophy is a real gift ) What good are all those shields if you don't have the science needed to build the wonders you need.
Plus, in an MP game, you won't be getting tribute (unless you are playing with idiots or AI's) and you will also be getting less huts, because real people are as aggresive as you are to hunt them down.

Now, I will grant you that against the AI, just about any solid strategy will work. And your way may actually be better, since the AI cheats to develop sciences at the rate you are. But in an MP game, science and money are everything. The first person to be able to build pikeman, knights, elephants, catapults, or crusaders has a definite edge.

[Smash]

I guess building an extra city early for additional trade is better than concentrating on arrows early since incremental rushbuying is cheating now

[Ming]

Incremental buying... cheating... depends on your perspective. Yes, some do consider it cheating. They are welcome to their opinion.
I don't see it that way. And I do not hide the fact that I do it. If I join a game, and the majority agree not to do it... I won't. Just like any other rule everybody seems to be disagreeing with these days

[Scouse Gits]

Dave V - Thanks, I am now converted to the "Production Imperative"
I must admit, I tend to rush the HG too much, when playing ICS. My trouble is I always want the Lighthouse as well!
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SG (2)