How do you play this game and actually win?

[Jim W]

I've been playing the game since last September, and very few times have I actually done what might be called "winning."

Seems like just about every game, I get up to 1500 AD, find myself with five cities and a treasury of 85 (and sometimes less). Whereupon I consider the likelihood of doing the tech advances necessary to get to AC by 2000, and come up with a figure somewhere in 2100 or so, so I quit and start a new game.

I did win one time because I had a huge whack of cities and stuff, and was just about to quit because there was no hope of getting to AC by 2000. Then I notice that there were only about five cities left unconquered, so I pulled on my G. Khan hat and went out and conquered them all. Of course, it ened up that one of the guys had built a new city in previously explored territory, so I had to go wandering all over the map to find him.

What I'm saying is, I guess I could always just go into conquest mode from the start, but I think the AC strategy is just a little more classy.

No, I'm not likely give the game up entirely, but it sure does seem to be taking me a heck of a long time to master it.

Jim W

[Seeker]

Jim, look at my last post in the thread 'AI cheats in naval bombardment' --it's a recap of the three basic paths to victory and the strategies you need.

You should NOT have 5 cities by 1500 AD.

The basic for ANY strategy is this: Build lots of caravans. LOTS. If you can't think of a very good reason to build something, build a caravan.

[The Mad Monk]

Jim, what level are you playing at?

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The Mad Monk
"Oh, the morning it stumbled right in through the window,
And this getting up early, gets old anyway
And if you listen closely, the crying that you hear,
Is the night time lamenting the start of the day."
-Lyle Lovett, "Icewater/Fly Swatter Blues"

[SlowHand]

Should NOT have 5 citie. 25 maybe.

[Steve Clark]

...or 8-12 really high quality coastal/river cities, cranking out arrows for research and caravans for building everything.

If you can't think of something to build, build caravans. Even when you have enough caravans to build 3 wonders at once, build some more!

[Ming]

Heck... only FIVE cites by 1500AD.

Expansion is key to the game. Forget about building improvements... BUILD MORE SETTLERS.
You have thousands of years to improve, at least lay a good base of cities first.
If I don't have 8 cities by 2000BC, I know I'm falling behind. In an MP game, I know I'm doomed

Explore and expand. Then you can start worring about trade routes and war. If somebody blocks your way, go somewhere else. Locked in... build ships and find someplace else to expand. Just keep building cities...

And last, don't concentrate on production shields. Concentrate on trade arrows instead. Do a beeline and research straight to monarchy (or republic) GET OUT OF DESPOTISM as fast as you can.

Do these simple things, and your chances of winning will improve.

[DaveV]

With all due respect, I have to disagree with Ming on the shields vs. arrows question. If the object is to crank out settlers and cities as fast as possible, a shield is worth a lot of arrows (2.5 gold = 6.25 arrows at 40% tax). When my cities are size 1, I try to max out shields, food, and arrows, with the emphasis on food. But once they reach size 2, I go for max shields. If that means working forest and sacrificing some arrows, so be it. I figure that the new city will generate more arrows later than I'm losing now.

Jim W - here's a simple algorithm for the early game: Build your first (two) city(s). Build a warrior to maintain order, a horseman to explore, and a settler to build another city. DON'T waste time irrigating, mining, or building improvements in your city. Build roads if needed, but get those early cities down ASAP! If you decide to switch to growth mode later, your cities should all be about the same size, which makes "we love the xxxx" growth spurts easier. If you want to play the "infinite cities" game, just keep cranking out settlers and building cities.

(Edited to make it clear I wasn't trying to tell Ming how to play the early game)
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited April 17, 2000).]

[Ming]

I'm glad you disagree, and you raise some fine points. But, the key is to get out of despotism. If you maximize for shields after it has gone to two pop, you will be in despostism far too long. I try to get to monarchy by 3000 BC... sooner, and I'm winning big time. If not by 2800BC, I'm getting killed if I'm playing MP. The difference between despotism and Monarchy is huge. I would rather have one less settler and get into Monarchy far faster.
I do build cities keeping production in mind.
And yes, I still crank out settlers as fast as I can, and usually build a unit or two to explore... but I will concentrate on trade arrows, not production. Given a choice of starting my first city near trade or production, I'll take the trade. In the long run, it's a better strategy IMHO

[Andz83]

Ming: Monarchy in 3000BC???

I'm happy when I reach it before 2000BC.

But in fact, I don't have many experiences in MP, and my highest rate in SP were

***ashamed*** 167% ***ashamed***

with DEITY, man, with DEITY
A friend of mine has reached 130% with Warlord, so my record...sucks

I know, I know, I'm bad. I play this game since summer 1996, so this is ridiculous

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"The more I know, the more do I know that I don't know anything" - forgotten who said that...
"Within the peace, enemy attacks us..." - Kaiser Wilhelm II, August 1914
"Hell, yeah!" - James Hetfiels, while singing "Master Of Puppets" on Metallica-S&M-concert in spring 1999 in San Francisco

[DaveV]

Ming - Despotism is indeed a lousy government, but I don't think it cramps my style so much in the early game. Up to four cities, there's no riot factor penalty over Monarchy. The production penalties only kick in for a square that produces more than 2 shields or arrows - a rare item in the early game.

Maybe you've been tainted by 2x production?

[Ming]

Yes, I have been "tainted" by double production. But, I still played it that way in single production. (but I sure as hell didn't get to monarchy by 3000BC in single )

I'm one that builds my first few cities near specials... And I will wander until I find them. Yes, sometimes I feel like the lost tribe... but I still look for them. Your first few cities will be the key of your empire... I want them to be special!

Science is everything in Civ. In MP, it gives you first crack at the wonders. If you can lead in science, you will never be in bad shape... (unless you leave your cities defenseless)

[inca911]

To win this game, you need to understand:
1. How to keep your people happy (preventing civil disorder).
2. What trade arrows do for you. Trade = Science = Bombers vs. Pikeman = Victory.
3. Different benefits of different government types. Things like martial law, max number of cities per government type before unhappiness really starts up, special unhappiness factors.
4. How military units work. Things like defensive bonuses for rivers, city walls, veteran status, etc.
5. What Wonders do for you, also city improvements.

I have tried to compile answers to many of these questions (provided by myself and others, thanks to all!) in a thread entitled "Distilled Civ Tips and Notes". Give it a read through and let me know if you have any questions. I will give it a bump so it is next to this thread on the message board (or at least close). With a few tips from the experienced civ players here, you will be taming Deity level in no time. Then you have to find ways to handicap yourself against the computer or find human players!

[Scouse Gits]

Dave V 1) Assuming you have Pottery from the start - do you start the Hanging Gardens after your capital has built its first warrior and settler?
2) If you don't have Pottery - would you ever consider researching it instead of one of the techs leading to Monarchy?

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SG (2)

[geofelt]

Jim-W; The key is to have many cities. To do this, have every city build a defender first, then build a settler just as soon as it reaches size 3. Use that settler to found a new city on any half decent spot near existing cities. Keep expanding until you run out of territory. Expand TOWARD any civ you find to deny them expansion room. in time all of these little cities will become big ones, letting you go to war, or build a spaceship. Use your settler to connect the cities by road. Irrigation does not help until you get to monarchy. I will also mine a wine or coal hill in my palace city.
Get to monarchy ASAP. If you can't research a monarchy prereq, pick bronze-working, pottery, or masonry to give you a wonder to start building. You can always switch production to a different wonder later.
Don't build any improvements early. After some size(depending on level) you will have to build a temple to keep order. Don't build markets until you are generating over 5 trade. Don't build a library until you get to 6 beakers.(my rules of thumb). If you are not building a settler or a military unit, build a food caravan to help build a wonder later(there is no maintenance cost for these).
There is a debate on maximizing trade vs shields. Both are right, and perhaps a balance is best. I find that I lose wonders because of a lack of production capacity, and not techs.
Try again, and let us know how you do.

[Smash]

You don't need lots of cities to win by space every time.A half dozen is plenty.Or even one.

My first 2 0r 3 cities absolutely,positively have to have specials in their radius' or I keep looking.Recognize the special pattern so you can mine specials from grassland if necessary.

Ming is correct.Science is everything.Learn how trade arrows work.Generating lots of trade arrows gives the science and cash.

Move your workers.Don't accept the game's default placement.It goes for food first.You want arrows

caravans,caravans,caravans-build and DELIVER as many as possible.Don't spend 1000 years looking for a city that demands.Get the trade routes set up ASAP.If it demands...great.

OCC.Play it.You will learn more about the game than any other way.

http://home.planet.nl/~belt0018/occ.htm

Playing multiplayer is also a great way to improve quickly.