AI cheats on naval bombardment?

[The Mad Viking]

Game I'm playing now, Emperor level, 7 civ, random map, RH...
I had a fortified veteran marine on a coastal plain; it was sneak attacked by a Sioux frigate. The marine lost and the frigate took only a little damage. I couldn't believe it. Even if it was a vet frigate, 6 attack, my marine should have been 10 defence. The FP should be 1 each (according to the manual, for any naval bombardment) and the HP is 20 each. I loaded the autosave, and the same thing happened again. (I reloaded it, and the Sioux decided not to sneak attack!)

Possibilities:
A sneak attack gets some sort of bonus
The manual is wrong about bombardment FP.
Naval units ignore fortified bonus of land units?

Anyone have any insight?

[Scouse Gits]

Naval bombardment certainly ignores city walls. In my experience, it also seems to do well against troops in forts. (I don't have a strategy book, so I can't say I'm certain about this.) However, the effect of terrain on defence against bombardment, seems the same as an attack by land troops.
Remember, all battles are a matter of chance, to some degree - as they are in the real world. Perhaps your marine was just having a "bad day".
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SG (2)

[Neon Deon]

Gomer Pyle must have been in charge.

[Neon Deon]

Mad,
I was curious to see why a fortified vet marine lost to a Poss. Vet frigate so i tested it. I took ten vet marines on plains squares and fortified them. Waited a turn then created 10 vet frigates. Now as this is a test to see if the ai cheats in naval bombardment i switched sides to the marines.
The ai must have calculated the odds to be to
dam ridiculous and ran away without attacking. So i repeatead. Each time the AI
ran away. Then i changed the test. I activated all marines and set them to fortify. The frigates then attacked. It would seem that a unit does not become fortified for a full turn. Anyway i did ten tests of ten for a total of 100. The frigate
won 10 out of 100 10%. I then repeated the
same test except with the human as the frigates. The frigates managed to win 9% of the time(9 out of 100). Then i fortified the
marines for a full turn (until the marines had little boxes at thier feet). Attacked the marines 100 times and lost all 100. Apparently the ai wont attack if there is little or no chance of wining. This test was
done on diety level with civ II MPG.
Is it possible that your marine was in the act of fortifying and not truly fortified??

[Smash]

There is one other possibility.The ai seems to have a "super" unit capability.Every so often I encounter a "horseman on steriods" that wins against a musket.One such horseman killed 3 vet phalanx in a forest city in a MP game once(he was yellow for the 2nd and 3rd kill!).Another "super" unit I remember was a frigate that easily sunk my cruiser with almost no damage.

I vaguely remember a thread where someone posted about one of these "super" units appearing in a game as a barb leader icon.If I recall correctly they immediately hit the cheat menu to see what was up and watched that unit walk thru 4 or 5 ai cities basically unopposed.It seemed to have an attack value of at least 10.

[Neon Deon]

I have only seen that syndrome with ai barbarians at emporor level or above. If u own great wall it chills em out

[mindseye]

Neon Deon -

I just found this after reading about your testing of the Pikeman's bonus. Have you built the Research Lab improvment in your home? One hundred trials per test! You are a valuable resource to the Civ2 community!!!

- mindseye
[This message has been edited by mindseye (edited April 06, 2000).]

[The Mad Viking]

Neon: you're right that he was in the act of fortifying. Still, the frigate appeared to lose only two rounds both times.

Smash - I think you and the others are on to something. Super units. Same game, a cruiser came by and killed two fortified riflemen (1 vet) and a cavalry in one turn in a city. (no CoastFort)

I thought this was a little much, but within the realm of bad luck. Well, I chased the cruiser down and attacked it with a full health vet cruiser of my own. The AI had yellow health just above where it would turn red. My cruiser won, but you could barely see the red sliver left on the health bar. So it would have lost 14 of 17 rounds by my estimation, although allegedly fighting at even odds.

Within the realm of really bad luck, but...

How about my sneak attack bonus theory? Anyone notice sneak attacker doing better than you would expect?

[The Mad Monk]

Always.

Playing the TOT Fantasy game at King level, I found the surprise attacks coming early and often.

There is no doubt in my mind.

Mad viking, did you attack that cruiser on the same turn? It seemed to that the 'super units' only remained super on the turn they attacked--as if they had gotten a 'field promotion' that had been consequently recinded.

[Neon Deon]

Super Units.

Well i havent got a clue as how to recreate
a super unit encounter

[Neon Deon]

Ohhhh I gotta try that one.

[George Garrett]

Another way that the AI navy "cheats" in Diety, as I've found, is to have an ironclad persistently pop up in a certain square, destroy one's units as they're trying to set up a coastal city, then disappear right after. I call it a "cheat" because it never appears before the hit to give a sporting chance of evasion, and disappears, right after the attack to afford no opportunity of retaliation. I think there must have been a twinkle in the programmer's eye when he fashioned the "French" units. I've noticed throughout my short Civ career, how apt they are to smite the "English" units whenever, and wherever they're able. That programmer must know that the French aren't, generally, all that keen on us Brits, in real life...they call us "Perfidious Albion"...cant think why! ;-)
[This message has been edited by George Garrett (edited April 08, 2000).]

[George Garrett]

Aha! That cheating clad got its comeuppance -
from one of my non-fortified settlers, yet!
After shellacking seven sorts of settlers and soldiers,outa my Civ, and forcing me to abandon a cherished square on which to build a mega city, this clad popped up, fired on my toiling, tilling settler, made it a veteran, and has been seen nevermore. Almost as good as that game where one of my CARAVANS sunk a modern warship!...go figure.

[Seeker]

Important thing to remember: a vet frigate is 6 attack, it's an even number. a marine's defense is a natural 5, maybe fractions aren't counted or are rounded down?

I don't know how this applies, but: in shore bombardment, walls are ignored (which means that vet caravels can take out pikemen sometimes), and both units are considered to have 1 hp and 1 fp. This usually results in MORE damage to ships, not less.

I don't know if ships ignore fortress bonuses.

[George Garrett]

Seeker, your claim that "naval bombardment ignores city walls" is not borne out by my most recent, and other experiences. Yesterday, in Diety SP one of ny walled cities was attacked by one, mebbe 2 "Indian" warships - destroyers? cruisers? battleships? all of the above? ...I'm not sure,all was over in a flash. Any, way my 3 fortified pikemen within were unscathed, the warship(s),presumably destroyed. While we're on the subject of fortresses, I've generally found those built by a settler, seem to be better protection than an (unwalled)city. My M.O. now, is when happening on a desirable spot on which to build a city, I have the settler first build a fortress then have my soldiers coverge on it, until there are 2-3 troops within - THEN I build my city, and after,in the hairy game which I'm presently playing, I build my walls a.s.a.p. Talking of Fortesses, some more, I swear by Coastal Fortresses - they seem to baffle everything!