Perfect timing in OCC

[freshman]

Hey - new topic - same idea (micromanagement tips)- rounding!

10 trade, 70% science rate = 7 base beakers
11 trade, 70% science rate = 8 base beakers, right? [round up]
9 trade, 70% science rate = 6 base beakers, right? [round down]
9 trade, 50% science rate = 5 base beakers? or 4 base beakers? or do your other modifiers effect things before base beakers are calculated?

Now I know trade (other than corruption, of course) is not wasted, so you can't always round down.
9 trade 50% science, 50%tax is either 4/5 or 5/4 but not 4/4 nor 5/5. Which benifits first from rounding - tax, lux, or science?
How 'bout something really complicated:
50% Science, 20% Tax, 30%Lux, 15 trade:
Is it 8sci/3tax/4 or 7sci/3tax/5lux
what about
Library is +50%,
so 4 base beakers = 6 beakers
and 5 base beakers = 7 beakers? or 8?

Lib+Univ+Cop's = 100%+50% = multiply by 3, no rounding, right?
Lib+Univ+Cop's+Isacs = 100%+50% +100% = multiply by 6, no rounding, right?

[Paul]

9 trade 50% science, 50%tax is either 4/5 or 5/4 but not 4/4 nor 5/5. Which benifits first from rounding - tax, lux, or science?How 'bout something really complicated:
50% Science, 20% Tax, 30%Lux, 15 trade:
Is it 8sci/3tax/4 or 7sci/3tax/5lux

With just tax/lux the extra trade arrow goes to science; I wouldn't know exactly how it does this when you add luxuries.

what about
Library is +50%,
so 4 base beakers = 6 beakers
and 5 base beakers = 7 beakers? or 8?

These bonuses are always rounded down, but I'm not 100% sure if all bonuses are added before rounding down. So your 5 base beakers will become 7 with library, but when you add a university it could become either 9 (both bonuses rounded down from 2.5 to 2) or 10 (rounding takes place after 2.5+2.5 are added).

Lib+Univ+Cop's = 100%+50% = multiply by 3, no rounding, right?
Lib+Univ+Cop's+Isacs = 100%+50% +100% = multiply by 6, no rounding, right?

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the manual switched the effects of Cope and Newton, so Cope would add 100% and Newton would add 50%. And I just wrote that I'm not 100% sure of the rounding. I would load a game to check it, but I just reinstalled Windows and didn't get around to installing Civ2 yet.

[freshman]

but I just reinstalled Windows and didn't get around to installing Civ2 yet.

Paul, sit down. Let me ask, and tell me honestly, where are your priorities? Civ2 is the only Operating System you should need.

[freshman]

woah! What version of Civ do YOU have? I have v.1 Civ II for Macintosh (1997), and Cop's is definitly 50%, Isac 100%.
Are you sure you aren't doing the cumulative thing correctly.
Cop's on top of a library+university is Mult*2, Mult *1.5 for a net multiplier of 3 which to you might SEEM like 100% added if you ADD the percentages first for +100+100=+200 or *3 again.

The way I believe they are calculated:
Library, University, Research Lab gives a multiplier of 1.5,2,or 2.5
Cops gives another multiplier of 1.5
Isacs gives yet another multiplier of 2

So University, RL bonuses are ADDED on top of the Library;
The rest is MULTIPLIED.
________________No Wonder__Cops___Isac___Cops+Isac
No_Improvement__1x_________1.5x____2x____3x______
Library__________1.5x________2.25x___3x____4.5x___ _
University________2x_________3x______4X___6X______
Research Lab_____2.5x________3.75x___5x____7.5x____


So Cops is 1.5 times the first column
Isac is 2 times the first column
And Cops+Isac is 3 times the first column

I will definitly check this out when I get home

[freshman]

Seems I'm totally wrong - samson builds Cop's before Colossus to get double science in his 76AD landing.
It just surprises me 'cause Cops is only 6 caravans and Newtons is 8 caravans.
You learn something every day

[Smash]

I use the mac versions and Copes doubles while Isaac is 50%.Isaac's needs improvements to work at full capability.It is backwards in the mac civlopedia also.

[freshman]

Thanks Smash - nice to know someone out there with a Mac-version; are there any patches for Mac? are there any major differences between Mac and this 2.42 I hear about?
Is there a 2.42 for Mac?

So the actual table should be:
________________No Wonder__Isac___Cops___Cops+Isac
No_Improvement__1x_________1.5x____2x____3x______
Library__________1.5x________2.25x___3x____4.5x___ _
University________2x_________3x______4X___6X______

Research Lab_____2.5x________3.75x___5x____7.5x____

??? (Just switched the table heading Cops and Isac's around)
How 'bout rounding issues?

[freshman]

Here's how it works - (I was finally able to test this stuff out):

Ignoring specialists, improvements, and wonders, your tax/luxury/science output is calculated from your tax-rates and your net trade (minus corruption) with rounding. If a fraction is above .5 it is rounded up, if it is .5 or less, it is rounded down. All of your trade should be accounted for, except possibly 1 more excess, which gets added to your GOLD.

As an example if you have 5 trade:
a 0-5-5 (tax-lux-sci) rate yields 1/2/2 (50% of 5 is 2 rounded down, only 4 trade are accounted for so there was 1 excess which goes to tax).
a 0-4-6 rate yields 0/2/3 - no rounding in this example
a 0-3-7 rate yields 1/1/3 - (30% of 5 is 1 rounded down, 70% of 5 is 3 rounded down, 1 excess goes to tax)
a 5-0-5 rate yields 3/0/2 (50% of 5 is 2 for tax and sci., 1 excess goes to tax)

Thats the story of the base quantities calculation.

Specialists = add 3 to your base tax/lux/sci

Improvements = get that extra 50%,100%,150% and always round down if your base is an odd number (fractions of .5 are always rounded down)

Wonders: special

Here's a table of all combinations of Science Wonders and Improvements:

Improvements__None__Library__Univ__Lab
None_________x1____x1.5r____x2___x2.5r
Cops_________x2____x1.5r,x2__x4___x2.5r,x2
Isacs_________x1____x2______x3___x4
C+I__________x2____x4______x6___x8

Here's the true story of wonders effects:
Isacs does NOT double science output as is mentioned in the Civilopedia; it does however double the bonus from a science improvement.
Compare the None line with Isacs line.
A library is +50% (1.5x) and with Isacs is +100% (2x)
A University is +100% (2x) and with Isacs is +200% (3x)
A Research Lab is +150% (2.5x) and with Isacs is +300% (4x)

Copernicus simply doubles the previous calculation, which includes any rounding.
A science base of 9 with a Library and Copernicus is [9*1.5]*2 = 13*2 = 26

So a one line summary is Isacs doubles science improvements, Copernicus doubles your science after improvements are taken into account.

[Ecthy]

sh!t, what a big load of micromanagement calculations... do you chaps really work with that stuff?

doesn't it take all the fun?

[freshman]

Ecthelion,
I certainly don't manage things down to EVERY beaker, but within 1 or 2 %. Rounding is minor, and I don't plan on using that knowledge, but a question as to how rounding worked when you had multiplicative factors with Wonders came up earlier in this thread that I researched and answered. Knowing how Newtons works is extremely important, because some people have claimed it is 50%, the manual (civilopedia) claims its 100% total science; and it's actually neither. Big factors in science make a difference.

BTW, if you ever study an insanely gifted OCCer, try looking at some of Ribannah's logs; she has a super tight game. Heck, I'm still trying to figure out how she eeked out a one turn advance of 1007 beakers with superhighways at size 22. I (and others) were only able to manage 2 turn advances after superhighways. Of course, I think she did one or 2 more squares of terraforming that I think answers her secret. But still, she must only clear her beaker count by less than 1% error. Tight!

[Smash]

Original or classic civ2 for mac contained all of the fixes of 2.42.It is the same.

There is a patch for MGE which had mainly MP fixes and a slightly improved "go to" command.Some faulty messages like "Berlin attacked by cruise aquaducts" were fixed also.

yes a tech after Darwin's is common.Good idea to raise the rate a touch in anticipation of additional beakers required from the 2 freebies.


Someone did a test that indicated slightly less beakers overall were required in MGE as compared to 2.42.In light of the key civ,#of civs,etc info we now know,this might or might not be the case.

[Ecthy]

I have to admit I tend to do some statistical calculations as well, just to get my economic efficiency high a bit... I don't even force WLTxDs usually, but I do it when I'm behind another civ... similar about calculations... only used when necessary

[Edward]

freshman,

My hat is off to you! Thanks for researching researching. I'm one of those players who incorrectly thought Issac Newton's College increased your pre-Issac rate by 50%.

Thanks!