Perfect timing in OCC

[freshman]

So for those of us who play OCC I thought I'd open up a discussion of timing, since exploiting timing can gain many turns.

1) effects of Mysticism takes next turn following discovery, so you can't lower your lux. the turn before

2) effects of Shakespear's Theater occur on the turn it is built - which means you can 0 your luxury, sell your Colessium/Temple the turn immediately before you build it.

3) Research lab effects are AFTER you build it - so you can't adjust your science lower in anticipation of finishing building it.

4) We Love takes a turn before you start to see effects

5) Population limits are lifted the same turn an Aqueduct / Sewer System are built, and before pop gain from WeLove are taken into account, which means if you are already Celebrating and at size 8, you can build an Aqueduct next turn, and grow to size 9.

6) Any pop gain happens before science and taxes are calculated and added to your coffers; the pop gain will choose the square with the highest food first, then highest production, then highest trade. So one trick is to road up the highest food square before you are about to grow.

7) Any research built up BEFORE Darwin is built is carried over. I don't think current research is added (ie. can't get 3 tech in 1 turn), so you might as well set Science Rate to 0 before building Darwin.

8) Discovery of Flight canceling Colussus happens after science has been calculated (duh!) and after taxes has been added.

9) Don't deliver cargo between (Invention,Navigation) and Corporation; money is slashed

10) Science improvements and Tax Improvements (Marketplace,Bank,Stock Exchange, Library, University) effect take place the turn they are built? So adjust your science rate turn before in anticipation of what your new science will be.

11) Science Wonders effects take place the turn they are built? So adjust your science rate turn before in anticipation of what your new science will be.


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Don't take anything I say as fact - I'm not sure about half these things. I'm hoping to get feedback from experts who've played more than the 3 total games of OCC that I've played.

I know there's a lot of other stuff I've missed

[freshman]

10 and 3 disagree - which proves that I don't know what I'm talking about. Can somebody who is an authority on OCC please clarify how it works

[Ecthy]

Re: Perfect timing in OCC

Originally posted by freshman
5) Population limits are lifted the same turn an Aqueduct / Sewer System are built, and before pop gain from WeLove are taken into account, which means if you are already Celebrating and at size 8, you can build an Aqueduct next turn, and grow to size 9.

wrong. if you have a size 8 city with a full food store and buy the aqueduct, it won't grow to size 9 on the next turn. same for sewer system. I don't know about WLTxDs...

and if you buy a granary in a city with full food store, the sotre will not be half ful on the next turn.

[freshman]

I know its true for WeLove celebrations. Just look at any log and you'll see the line Aqueduct,S9 everywhere. You may be right about normal food growth; I thought the effect would be the same.

[KrazyHorse]

Well, Ecthelion, it definitely works for WLTxD.

[Ecthy]

fair enough. I've hjust noticed the food storage thing short time ago, so I was keen on getting rid of it publicly

[EOL]

Re: Re: Perfect timing in OCC

Originally posted by Ecthelion
wrong. if you have a size 8 city with a full food store and buy the aqueduct, it won't grow to size 9 on the next turn. same for sewer system. I don't know about WLTxDs...

Celebrating size 8 city with a full food box and an aquaduct built that turn will become a size 9 city with an empty food box next turn.

Celebrating size 8 city with a nearly full food box and an aquaduct built that turn will become a size 9 city with a slightly less full food box (depending how much food you produce, you add sheeves but have a bigger box to fill).

Celebrating size 8 city with a full food box and no aquaduct becomes a size 8 city with an empty food box.

A non-celebrating size 8 city with a full food box and an aquaduct built that turn becomes size 8 with an empty food box.

[Ecthy]

are you sure those are all permutations?

(I suppose those are all, since 2^2=4 )

well, an almost-full food store often seems to be better than a full one... especially if the city is on hunger and has an active settler

[Paul]

1) effects of Mysticism takes next turn following discovery, so you can't lower your lux. the turn before

Never paid much attention to that but I believe you're right

2) effects of Shakespear's Theater occur on the turn it is built - which means you can 0 your luxury, sell your Colessium/Temple the turn immediately before you build it.

Right, that can save you a turn of maintenance and give you extra tax money or start WLTCD immediately on that turn.

3) Research lab effects are AFTER you build it - so you can't adjust your science lower in anticipation of finishing building it.

Wrong, see 10

4) We Love takes a turn before you start to see effects

Right

5) Population limits are lifted the same turn an Aqueduct / Sewer System are built, and before pop gain from WeLove are taken into account, which means if you are already Celebrating and at size 8, you can build an Aqueduct next turn, and grow to size 9.

Right, WLTPD growth takes place after the improvement is built. But for normal growth you need to have it built the turn before.

6) Any pop gain happens before science and taxes are calculated and added to your coffers; the pop gain will choose the square with the highest food first, then highest production, then highest trade. So one trick is to road up the highest food square before you are about to grow.

I believe that's wrong, at least for WLTPD growth. Tax and science are added before WLTPD growth takes place. But it may work differently with normal growth; after all we already mentioned at 5 that the two types of growth don't happen at the same moment in the city processing.

7) Any research built up BEFORE Darwin is built is carried over. I don't think current research is added (ie. can't get 3 tech in 1 turn), so you might as well set Science Rate to 0 before building Darwin.

Wrong. Research built up before Darwin is lost. That's why in OCC you should always finish Darwin when the beaker-box is empty. Beakers accumulated after Darwin is built (including from the city that built Darwin) will be added to the new research goal, but it will start from zero.

8) Discovery of Flight canceling Colussus happens after science has been calculated (duh!) and after taxes has been added.

Of course.

9) Don't deliver cargo between (Invention,Navigation) and Corporation; money is slashed

Corporation itself doesn't improve the bonus. It's just the freight that you can build will get double bonus. So if you still have caravans after Inv or Nav there's no reason to delay delivery until after corporation.

10) Science improvements and Tax Improvements (Marketplace,Bank,Stock Exchange, Library, University) effect take place the turn they are built? So adjust your science rate turn before in anticipation of what your new science will be.

Right. And when you set the new science rate, keep in mind that each of the science improvements adds 50% of your basic science rate. With a library you have 1.5 times base science and when you add a university you will get 2.0 times base science. Add a research lab for 2.5 times base science.

So when you build a university your new science output becomes 2.0/1.5 = 1.333... times your current science output. And when you add a lab your new science output becomes 2.5/2.0 = 1.25 times your current science output.

11) Science Wonders effects take place the turn they are built? So adjust your science rate turn before in anticipation of what your new science will be.

Right. And don't forget that the manual is wrong about the effects of Newton and Cope. Cope doubles your science output (including bonus from science improvements) and Newton adds 50% of your science output (including bonus from science improvements and Cope).

[Smash]

Discovering and switching governments on an oedo turns keeps "we love" going.Especially useful during Republic celebrations and Democracy is discovered before celebrations are finished.Also if you celebrate in Monarchy and get Republic.Growth can begin immediately.

[freshman]

Wrong. Research built up before Darwin is lost. That's why in OCC you should always finish Darwin when the beaker-box is empty. Beakers accumulated after Darwin is built (including from the city that built Darwin) will be added to the new research goal, but it will start from zero.

Thanks Paul,
though you can see how I got confused (I saw a partially full research before and after Darwin). So always build Darwin the turn after an advance! And use Samson's beaker formula to determine what your next beaker count will be after 2 more techs are added - has anyone out there timed this perfectly to get an immediate advance after Darwin?? It certainly looks like good 'ol Ribannah can do this.

[freshman]

Wait - I'm still confused. Is it possible to get 3 advances in one turn when Darwin is built?

[freshman]

I guess superhighways also act as a science improvement or wonder, in that the effects take place on the turn it is built, before science and tax are calculated.

Does anyone have a list of order things are processed?
ie.
Normal Pop Growth
Production Added -> if built, effects take place (Improvement/Wonder)
Luxury calculated->if unhappy, revolt,
If celebration=Monarchy, compute trade as Republic
Science/Tax Calculated
If celebration=growth, do growth


This is not a definitive list

[EOL]

yes, 3 advances are possible, if you're producing enough science for a one turn advance from either, all the cities checked before the one that builds it (plus the beakers already colleected) - or - all the cities checked after it is built (including the building city itself, which is obviously the only one in OCC).

[Ecthy]

well, you can even get 3 techs per turn when you have the right empire size, which even means you can get a hell lot of techs per turn with a big empire and building darwin