Stopping the cheapness! Inciting revolts

[DaveV]

The factors that control how expensive your cities are to bribe:

Distance from capital
Your cash
Size of city
Courthouse in city (reduces distance to capital)
City in revolt (half price)

So, build big cities, with courthouses, close to your capital and keep lots of cash on hand to discourage bribery. City walls might help, too, else the briber can reduce the population in the city by killing your defenders.

People rarely talk about the city size factor, but it's as important as any other. If you can WLY up to size 8 early, it should put the price out of your opponent's reach.

[Scouse Gits]

Does a city with a wonder (not an expired one) add to the cost of bribery?

Brainy - Follow the above advice - loads of gold and spies. (Fundamentalism is good for generating cash, and keep the caravans trading) Then go shopping yourself, and bribe a few of his cities! Attack is very often the best form of defence.
--------
SG (2)

[DaveV]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 03-23-2000 08:50 AM Attack is very often the best form of defence. -------- SG (2)

Amen to that. Bribing one of your opponent's cities will eliminate any elements of his navy or diplomatic corps that are based from that city (I generally home my diplos to my capital for that reason).

[Steve Clark]

I usually go further with an 'offensive' defense - ring your territory with fortified Diplomats/Spies and bribe anything that moves your way, especially enemy dips/spies.

[DaveV]

Steve Clark - two problems with that approach: it's ineffective against a stack of more than one unit, and can't protect your coastal cities. A boat can unload a diplomat directly into a city, so he doesn't even need a landing square.

I should, though, have mentioned above that taking one of your opponent's cities by convential means is just as effective as bribing (and usually more cost-effective). In fact, the ideal outcome might just be to remove the city from the map (kill defenders until the city drops to size 1, then attack again). That way, you don't need to worry about it being bribed back.
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited March 23, 2000).]

[War4ever]

i agree that destroying cities is sometimes the best option..... especially if its a city that has the potential to wreak havoc on your civ.......

While many may say that bribing the city to be one of yours is better, ie you get the city intact, you then risk the problem of the other player rebribing the city at half cost, thus losing tech at the same time.....

sometimes its good to flatten small cities to rubble especially in the mid to late game where a size two or three city isnt' all that important at this point in the game.

However early on , any additional city could be a benefit as you take it away from someone and add it to your own collection thus making it almost twice as valuable to take intact.

This is especially important with coastal cities for establishing a stronghold and for removing his potential navy.

But personally i never bribe cities unless i have the means to back it up and this usually requires a decent size invasion force.... which often means i am going for the kill anywasy

[Sten Sture]

Brainy & SG - I just tried my short-cut and it worked...
http://ltswww.epfl.ch/~winkler/civ2.html

?? does that work ??

[Bohlen]

My invasion force always includes dips and spies. I tend to attack non-walled cities with conventional means of warfare, while bribing the walled cities. I'd rather buy the city inside the wall than destroy the wall itself. It only takes one dip to bribe, but could take several to bring down city walls.

[Brainy]

Thanks a lot sten... that link seems to work.

All this talk about how to use dips and spies have revolved around the assumption that the opponent actually cares about how much it costs to bribe the cities.

Here's the scenario: The only person I play civ with is a friend on a lan. (In net play, games are too long and never get finished, so I've given up playing people I don't know on the net) He likes to go full military/expansionist route, giving little regard to research and improving the quality of his conquered cities. He steals all the techs he needs, either by bribing or stealing, or both (first stealing, then bribing the city thereby getting 2 techs)

The coastal cities are particularly vulnerable for reasons mentioned in previous posts. And until ironclads, there's little u can do to interdict triemes and caravels from unloading the dips right into the cities.

Now, I've taken the advice of all the posters here about making the cities as expensive as possible to incite, but that doesn't completely deter my rather unimaginative opponent. Has anyone been able to come up with a counter solution to this?

[MasterBob]

Having a Diplomat is the best way! But other than that. build a courthouse and surround your city with units to kill the diplomat before he gets to the city.

------------------
Webmaster---Come to the Civworld Forums

"If you cannot beat them, don't join them, instead corrupt them, make them join you, then throw them off a cliff."

"Greatness is measured by how evil you are, the more evil, the greater you become."

[geofelt]

If the coastal cities are a problem, then don't build many, and maintain a naval patrol on those you do build. Democracy will keep you from losing cities, but not from losing techs. Remember that a city can lose a tech to a diplomat only once. The tech that is stolen by a diplomat is a random choice of what you have. It may be useless, and only serve to delay the tech your rival is researching. The 50% cost reductions apply to cities you originally built. You will win a war of bribery attrition eventually. I don't think there is a time limit on this.

[War4ever]

no the only time war is a patience one Geofelt..... dip wars are no fun in MP.... and i now believe it to be a cheap win against the ai as well. I use dips for walls and sabotage.... not for taking cities especially against the ai and always in MP as i no longer play city bribe

[DaveV]

Brainy - the only sure way to protect your coastal cities is to park a stack of units (either two boats, or a boat with a passenger) on every ocean square adjacent to your city. That stack can't be bribed - the only way for your opponent to reach the city is to sink the boats. That's a 50-50 proposition with triremes, but the odds are 2-1 against you with caravels. Building the Lighthouse gives you veteran ships and greatly improves your odds. If you have (and maintain) a big enough tech lead, your opponent should have a tough time besting your navy.

To make best use of this trick, you'd be well advised to build your coastal cities where they only contact 1 or 2 ocean squares.

[arii]

I think bribing cities should be kept to playing the AI. AIs build up gold much faster than human, so is better at defending against it as human.
In games where bribing is allowed my defense is to grow my cities with WLTPD, keep a good amount of gold on hand (400-1000g) and bribe the cities back the turn after it was bribed. A size 5 city is almost impossible to bribe if you have at least 400g and it is not too far from your capitol. Bribing back a city the turn after is great. You can buy it for 25% the cost (revolt+your city) and even less since it will be far from the opponent capitol and the pop has decreased. I don't like to build courthouses because they are too expansive and slow down expanssion too much.
1 trick that can be used is to move your capitol close to the limit between to the 2 empires.
In games where bribing is allowed there is no need for armies which is ridiculous.

[Bohlen]

As far as courthouses go...I tend to build them against the AI when attempting to keep a newly captured city when it is the first city captured on the AI's continent. It never fails that when I get that first city, the AI bribes it back ASAP. If the AI is bribing a lot or I'm short on cash, I'll make sure to rush build a palace in that city so the AI can't bribe it. I don't bother with building a palace close to the newly captured city, I build it within that same city. The only time this strategy almost failed me was in a nuclear war when my new capital of Bombay was nuked. I lost few troops, but Bombay was never captured. Dumb, dumb AI. Those pesky Indians could have done me in with a little effort.