Help with inadequate food supply

[Campo]

I've finally gotten to the point where I can win easily at King level, thanks to advice gleaned here. So now I'm into my first competitive Emperor game. (I had tried it a couple months ago and got clobbered.)

I'm holding my own so far. I have a dozen cities, all with marketplaces and not much else. I've built Colossus & Copernicus in my science city, and the Great Wall elsewhere. I lost out on the Pyramids and Marco Polo. I'm racing an AI civ to Michaelangelo's, and I've just started Leonardo's.

From what I can tell by contacts, I think I'm first or a close second in techs.

So here's my problem: food. The region I'm in has a good amount of specials for production and trade, but altogether too many hills and mountains. Most of my cities are producing either no surplus or only one surplus food. I only have two cities with more than that, and they're both supporting settlers.

My science city has a granary but no surplus food. It was my first city -- 4 specials, so I figured I'd use food caravans to grow it. I thought I'd develop other cities with enough surplus food, but it hasn't worked out. I'm hemmed in by four AI civs, so I can't keep expanding unless I go for conquest (which would be risky at this point because we're about even in military techs).

How do I grow my population at a decent rate? My only idea is to put a settler on a trireme and found a city on a different continent (with better food terrain), then expand there and start sending food caravans back to my "home" region. That would work, but it would be a very slow process.

Any other ideas? Thanks.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

Start clearing the trees! Or, start a city somewhere with good food production and start shipping those food caravans into the cities that need it.

[Scouse Gits]

MWHC has it - irrigate them there forests (unless they are on river squares) - it would help if you could give us a litle more detail of the terrain surrounding say your science city then we might be able to provide specific clues.
By the bye - hit Ctrl-t and talk to your Science Advisor - he will tell you whether "We are number one!" or merely "All is well, your Majesty" (you may need to put the CD in for this)
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited March 07, 2000).]

[Campo]

Unfortunately my problem terrain is mostly hills, with some mountains and a little tundra. My science city, for example, has one whale and three other ocean squares, one grassland, two mountains, one tundra, and the rest hills. (The other specials are gold, coal, and iron.) There's an excess of hills everywhere in my territory.

I knew growth would be a problem, but I was counting on surplus food from other cities. Unfortunately the hills curtail my food surplus almost everywhere. I'd be okay if there were more forest.

I don't have explosives yet, so my settlers are limited in their transformation ability. By the time I get engineers I'll have lost a lot of growth time, plus I'll sacrifice population producing enough engineers to terraform on a large scale.

[Campo]

Oh, and as far as starting a "food city", I have no room to expand on my home continent. I'm hemmed in by ocean on two sides and AI civs everywhere else. All the good food terrain is already taken. That's why I'm thinking about heading for another continent to start a food city. From my limited exploration it looks like there are a couple possibilities, but it will be a slow process -- and in the meantime my growth is miniscule.

[My Wife Hates CIV]

Harbor improvement.

[Campo]

Yes, that will help the science city. I've been rushing so much to build the science wonders that I didn't do it yet.

Most of my other cities are inland though, so it won't help them. I've never had a map in which there were so many good specials positioned around such poor food-producing terrain. I've already irrigated what few grassland and river squares there are, plus the one wheat I've got. That's where my settler support comes from.

I really need more roads so I hate to disband my two settlers.

[inca911]

quote: Originally posted by Campo on 03-07-2000 10:35 AM Oh, and as far as starting a "food city", I have no room to expand on my home continent. I'm hemmed in by ocean on two sides and AI civs everywhere else. All the good food terrain is already taken. That's why I'm thinking about heading for another continent to start a food city. From my limited exploration it looks like there are a couple possibilities, but it will be a slow process -- and in the meantime my growth is miniscule.

If you've got AI civs next to you with food, and you are low on food then there is an easy solution to your problem--war! Build several diplomats and sabotage a food rich city until you get the city walls to fall. Then take it over with your troops. Better yet, buy the city outright if you can. Don't hesitate to go to war when it suits your needs--especially on the higher difficulty levels when you are unable to expand.

[inca911]

By the way, you mentioned that you had a granary in at least one of your cities. I prefer to use WLT*D (We love the leader day) to boost population instead of using granaries. You likely have Republic already, so don't bother with the granaries unless you want to use the food caravan cheat to grow your science city unnaturally large.

[Smash]

irrigated hills give 2 food.Double irrigated gives 3 food.So maybe go for Refrigeration and supermarkets.You'll want engineers(Explosives).Engineers can also terraform but unless you have a ton of engineers it takes too long, but, hills becomes plains.Also plains can be changed to grasslands.

If you get Mich's,temples and markets you should be able celebrate(Rep or Demo) up to 12 in most cities(food allowing) without major luxuries.20-40% should do it and 10 or 20% after "we love days" to maintain order.


When I'm going for conquest or MP I also use food caravans under Commie for growth in certain cities but I notice a "food route" takes the spot of a "trade route" so I limit it until sufficient military techs are developed.
That reason is why (IMHO) food caravan growth is not a cheat.It takes alot of resources and has detrimental effect on trade.
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited March 07, 2000).]

[Campo]

I built the granary only in the science city, because I wanted to get faster growth early on before I could get the "love" days. It was obvious from the beginning that it wasn't a good food-producing site, but I couldn't resist an early start on four specials.

Should I direct my tech research to explosives so I can get engineers? I've been researching my usual tech path so I can pursue my key wonders (Copernicus, Michaelangelo, Leonardo, Bach, Adam Smith), plus Gunpowder, of course. I usually follow those paths and get Explosives as a later by-product. I could make it a priority, though I'm afraid that might cost me Bach or Smith, depending on what the AI's do. Is it worth the risk?

[Smash]

get your usual wonders and have a bunch of settlers ready for the Leo's upgrade.

You can survive without Adam Smith's or Bach's(with Mich's,temples and markets) for now.It does take awhile to make farmland and supermarkets so the sooner Refrigeration the better.I don't know how far along you are but you may have to build sewers if you haven't allready.Alot of work.If you miss Bachs,banks and stock exchanges help to keep luxury rates lower.Also trade routes add more arrows to cities.

[Campo]

Not ready for sewers yet -- my biggest city is size 7, and the average is probably 4.

Couldn't play last night; I hope to pick it up tonight.

[Smash]

and you got food problems allready?Must be some rugged terrain.Maybe a new colony is in order.I thought maybe you were at size 10-12 and struggling to get food for maybe size 15-20

[Campo]

The NON engineer trick -- you disband the city by producing that engineer, right?

My situation has improved. First I made a few diplomats and did some investigating. I found an AI city in a great food-producing site and bribed it. That gave me a city with a surplus of 4 food. So I produced two settlers and put one of them to work making terrain improvements on the few decent squares I had. Every little bit helped.

I sent the other settler to a fairly close island to found a city that had both a fish and grain special, plus a few grassland squares. So then I had TWO good food cities. I used them to support a couple more settlers for terrain improvement, and a couple to found two more distant cities with good food.

I also stopped building caravans long enough to put harbors wherever seemed useful.

I've got one food caravan to my science city already and another one soon.

I did finish Mike's and (right at the end of the session) Leo's.

I'm in decent shape overall. My current problems are:

Adding all the new cities has made me the biggest civ, so the others are forming alliances to contain my aggresion. (Not that I've been aggresive -- I've been too busy trying to feed myself.)

I've been focusing so much on solving the food problem that I've neglected some other areas. I've got to catch up on a few city improvements and finish road building. And I'm almost completely lacking offensive military units.

Other civs are probably going to beat me to Magellan's and Darwin's, and maybe JS Bach's. The first two aren't essential, but I do like those extra sea movements. On King level I always get Bach's so I'm not sure how I'll do without it. I haven't given up hope yet though.

I think I'm ahead in the race to Adam Smith's, which is the only one I have the tech's to build right now.

Sorry to be so long-winded. I'm just excited that I have a chance to win at Emperor. There's a ways to go yet.