The whole caravan thing

[Theben]

Alright. I try to build caravans for trade and food, but I always get sidetracked by something I consider more immediate. Usually I just build 3 for my science city, and some others for wonders. So how do you guys seem to build so many? How many would you say you build in an average game?
Do you find yourself building a lot more in double production games than regular production (more than just x2)?
What do you consider more and/or less important than a caravan?
In what situations do you use food caravans?
Any newer strategies for caravans (in last 5 months) in general?

[Adam Smith]

How many caravans? 40-50 trade routes, about 20 food, plus all wonders via caravans. Thats probably 130-150 total.

What do I consider more important than a caravan? First priority is expanding to the number of cities allowed by government, up to eight or ten max for me. Second priority is adequate defense: a phalanx in each city, plus two mobile units and one or two dips to cover the entire set of eight or ten cities. After that, I build pretty much nothing but caravans. Improvements can be purchased; wonders are built from caravans; spaceship built using wonders as placeholders plus spending the money you accumulated.

I only use food caravans to grow my Super Science City.

New strategies? Working on using caravans to manipulate the commodities individual cities supply and demand, but not quite there yet.

All of these comments apply to games against the AI. My impression is that most MP games dont get continued long enough to build too many caravans.

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Old posters never die, they just f.a.d.e..a..w..a..y . . .

[Theben]

Thanks for the quick response. I should amend what I said. I do build many other caravans, but usually not until late in the game; well into the industrial-modern era and after factories. When do you really start pumping them out?

I should also mention that I'm a bit more expansionist than you. I try to have a lot more cities than that (I also usually play large map).
[This message has been edited by Theben (edited December 12, 1999).]

[Ken Hinds]

I also play on a large map and often have 10 to 20 cities. I try to get trade fairly early in the game as it makes wonder building easier. My usual building pattern is: 1) a military unit, 2) diplo/spy, 3) caravan/freight, 4) City improvement.

I modify this as needed on a city by city basis depending on what the urgency is for some particular item in that city.

Ken

[Smash]

I use food caravans and a granary to grow certain cities quickly under Communism or Monarchy.You can add a new citizen every turn.One way to counter "we love" of Republics and Democracies.

[Scouse Gits]

Adam,
"no of cities allowed by the government???"
We have noticed quantum leaps in unhappiness while we have been expanding and hypothesised that there was a 'rule' there somewhere. Do you have the deep intelligence? Please share...

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor


[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited December 13, 1999).]

[finbar]

Just out of interest, SG, exactly how many of you are there lurking behind that handle?

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Scouse Gits]

Just the two, me SG[1] mad professor (university lecturer) and my mate SG(2) a printer - we get together to play Civ most Friday and Sunday evenings.
For reference v2.42 at the moment SG(2) likes the standard game and lots of Democracy, while I favour some graphic enhancements and Fundy for ever!
Hope this helps
(You're not Carthaginian are you? )

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor


[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited December 13, 1999).]

[DaveV]

Scouse Git (1),

There is a "magic number" for each type of government. After you exceed 1x that number of cities, you will start having cities whose first citizen is unhappy. After you exceed 2x that number of cities, you will start having cities whose first citizen is very unhappy (which cities, and how many, appears to be semi-random). The magic numbers at Deity level are:

Despotism/Anarchy: 4
Monarchy: 6
Communism/Fundamentalism: infinity
Republic: 8?
Democracy: 10?

I'm not sure of the last two, since I rarely play them.

[Theben]

Interesting plan, Smash. Might make Pyramids more important than I give it.

[jpk]

Theben...I build hundreds of caravans.
ICS = Infinite Caravan Sleaze.

All of my comments relate to playing against the AI. I'm reasonably sure it's single production. A grassland square yields either 0 or 1 shield so you be the judge.

I usually build 20 to 30 cities on my own. Cities and settlers that come from tipping huts add a few more. I will build cities on islands off the coast of AI continents. Cities that come from bribes and warfare add some more. Since I am not warlike until late in the game and I play on maps with 10,000 squares, by the end of the game I will have 100 or so cites.

As soon as I can afford to do so I buy city improvements or at least most of the shields. For example, suppose I want to build a bank and the city produces 20 shields. I will play one turn as normal, switch to a colluseum and buy it for 160 gold, then switch back to the bank for one more turn.

Once I get radio I build airports as fast as possible and then fly freight units half way around the world. Once I can afford to do so I purchase enough shields so that each freight unit requires but one turn to build.

Back to your questions. Suppose the city has a defender, a settler for improvement, and, if it is on a hostile continent, a diplomat. Then I will build caravans unless I need a happiness improvement, an aquaduct, a sewer, or an airport. If I think my city would go into We Love The President Day with a market place, bank, or stock exchange, then I will build them. Libraries and universities are rather low priorities for me. I count on the trade bonus from caravans for most of my science. The obvious exception is the science city.

At the beginning of the game I build food caravans for Wonder building. That is how I distinguish caravans I want to use for Wonders from caravans I want to use for trade. This is the only way I can keep things straight.

The only thing I am doing differently from, say, five months ago is building far more caravans.

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If you can not think of a good reason to build something other than a caravan, build a caravan!

[Steve Clark]

Just got done playing a caravan-centric game with 12 cities on a normal map - it worked perfectly. I built 11 key wonders all with caravans (usually in 1-3 turns). I also built caravans out my science city on a periodic basis. Then, I stacked about 120 caravans outside of 6 cities to build all of the required SS Structurals (15) and SS Components (6) in 5 turns (I used cash for the SS Modules).

This was my first time playing this way and now I can really see the benefits of caravans. It is the most undervalued unit in the game.

[Bohlen]

Your strategy to use caravans to help build spaceship parts, which is a great idea, made me think of asking this:

Has anyone tried playing a game without building any caravans? Has anyone won such a game? I guess you could call it NCC (No Caravan Challenge). How difficult would it be to win a game with this strategy? At what difficulty level(s) could it be done?

[Steve Clark]

That's very easy. My last game was the FIRST game (after playing and winning continously for a year) that I built caravans to a great extent. Truthfully, I didn't know about the value of caravans until reading this forum. But as I can attest, one can easily win at bloodlust (and AC I assume) without caravans.

[Paul]

Like Steve, I also learnt about the value of caravans when I first came here and I can tell you that I have won the space race without caravans. It may take a bit longer, but it is not much of a challenge for a decent civ2 player.