Can you live without leonardo's workshop?

[tobyr]

Can you live without leonardo's workshop?

I do, because I play the ToT fantasy game, where the equivalent wonder is sometimes a little use, more often useless. I think it's fun living without this overly powerful, game-unbalancing wonder.

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

[Steve Clark]

In MGE SP, no way, unless I really have to, then I'll adjust...

[Graag]

A while ago I would have said no, but since playing MP it is unavoidable that you dont get it very often, and it really isnt that big a problem. I will always try to get it, but in MP Great Wall and Sun Tzus are both almost as good as Leo's. I would go so far as to say in some games Leos is just a wonder of conveniance, saving tedious replacing of units. Wall can be a lot better for defense, and sun tzu for war. The main advantage of leos is the settler/engineer update, which don't help too much when you are under attack from some guy with vet dragoons or crusaders who has sun tzu. also, leos updates your pikes (defense against those units = 4) to musketeers (defense=3). And you lose your vets. Case closed.

Of course, having said that, I always go for it, but i dont mind if i dont get it.

Graag

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You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

[This message has been edited by Graag (edited February 08, 2000).]

[Black Bart]

Well I had that happen once. It wasn't the end of the world I thought it would be. In SP it really is a matter of convience. I can concentrate my city building to city improvements.

[Sivro]

Yeah, not having it is not really the end of the world. Leo's is a luxury, not a necessity.

[War4ever]

due to the lack of warfare especially at that point in the game.... Leos only saves time on an antiquated army. Once the world becomes bogged down with Pikemen, war takes a standstill as we rush through the powergraph for Democracy. I like leos for the upgrade to riflemen and calvalry. However if your talking war, the wall is a wicked wonder. Leos will guarrantee that ifyou are first to gunpowder, that most of your cities are intact

[Ming]

Yeah war4ever, but there is nothing finer than attacking a city where Leo's has just converted 2 or 3 vet pikeman to non vet muskets

[Black Bart]

I didn't realize it converted them to non vets. That's terrible. It isn't easy getting vets in the early game without barracks. Usually they'll die before they become a vet.

[War4ever]

i dont know Ming.... you lost two antiquated troops to my non vet musket the other day

i had leos and i am doing just fine with it thanks

[Ming]

War4ever...
It would have been a different story against the crusader that was one turn away... too late

[War4ever]

thats the amazing thing about my intelligence reports lol i "knew" you couldnt' hurt me seriously though.... now i am there4ever just to gather more of my intelligence.

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Destroy or be Destroyed.
Conquer or be Conquered.
Strategy overcomes any odds.
Hit first,fast,hit last.
I am not a warmonger, i am just aggressively forcefull.


icq 30200920

[iadkins]

I rarely build any Wonders. This approach strengthens your strats. You don't depend on Wonders, so if you ever do build one it's a bonus.

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*THE DEITY*
#8388924

[Carolus Rex]

Hm...

OK, wonders aren't something to depend on in the sense that your strategy hinges on getting this or that wonder and if you don't it's game over. As always, flexibility and ability to adapt don't hurt.

But building wonders is a way to refine your strategy (lean and mean), whatever that strategy is. Aiming at one specific wonder only to see the evil Romans build it the turn before me, doesn't mean I cut my veins open (although I often consider it, especially if I have spent all my gold rushbuilding).

Carolus

[DaveV]

I agree with Carolus, but would go further to say that building a wonder can determine your strategy for the game. Flexibility is the watchword until you build a killer wonder. Then, go to the limit in exploiting that wonder - you are the only player in the game with its abilities, so use them!

[Steve Clark]

That's a good thought - wonders affecting strategy. Let me add a few examples of this:

Great Wall: allows you to concentrate on building up productive cities without worrying about building up strong defensive forces (or even offensive for a time).

The SSC Wonders are a strategy in of themselves, that is, the strategy of having a SSC.

Sun Tzu: Building this usually means that you want to go to war early and often -but you will likely be superior militarily.

Building a wonder just to keep it out of your opponent's hands is a strategy as well.

These are just a few throughts in the time I have. Maybe we all can add to this (here or at a new thread) and talk about how wonders affect strategy?