Vet units? Great, but where do they come from?

[Sten Sture]

There is a first for everything!

[Ming]

Gee, I was right for a change. There is a first time for everything

[DaveV]

SS,

No, I didn't have STWA in the original test. I re-ran the test with STWA, and again four out of four archers failed to become vets after taking an undefended city. An archer that attacked a defended city did become a vet, so STWA was working properly. Ming is right, I was wrong. End of story.

[rah]

OK, everyone seems to throw around that 50% chance of becoming a vet after surviving a combat. Is that right? Is it the same if you attack a barbarian king? It just seems to never happen 50% of the time. My experience is closer to 25% or less. Any one else want to share there perception of this. I just don't believe 50% no matter what the rules say.

RAH
[This message has been edited by rah (edited October 12, 1999).]

[Ming]

I have to agree with Rah on this one. (again, duh)

With regular combat, 25% seems more in line to the reality of actual results.
But, barbarian kings... I'm lucky to get a vet about 10% time.

Anybody ever run any tests on this "fact"

[Paul]

I never ran any tests on this and I'm not much of a warmongerer but I'd have to agree that the chances of getting vet units must be lower than 50%

[SandMonkey]

*~*~*~BUMP~*~*~*

There's a lot of good things in here on early defense, vets (duh), and such. I figured a lot of the newbies (not to mention myself, i picked up a couple new i deas in here that i will try out) can use.

------------------
SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

"Ecky eck ecky!"
"It's just a flesh wound!"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[My Wife Hates CIV]

I build barracks in all my cities. In MP it seems to be the first thing destroyed when attacked by diplos. Better than having that temple destroyed. I also love the gold bonus you get when reaching the techs that allow the next level of barracks, nothing like a 600 gold bonus! (or whatever you happen to get). I'm poor most of the time so it really helps.

[BlackJack]

Somewhere between my fourth and sixth city I build a barracks and start building elephants. I should have Polytheism by then. And, like others, send them off to my capital and frontier cities. Like others, I also believe a good offense is the best defense and elephants are as good as it gets for me for quite awhile. I'll also consider vet archers. Vet any other early unit just doesn't work for me - other stuff looses too often to barb legion showing up at an unwalled city.

Yeah, I'd like to build a marketplace or library but what I really like is to grin when I see the barbs approaching. Later, with walls or better defensive units, I can let them attack and then pick-up bucks for their useless leader. So bite the bullet - build the barracks.

As my civ spreads and I need other improvements in my barracks city, I'll build another. Only if I'm in a really hot neighborhood where I need quick healing will I build a third prior to Mobil Warfare.

I love Sun Tzu and really try to get it but not 'til much later. Too much higher priority stuff for awhile. But if one of the warlike civs is after it, I up its prioity - I hate vet Mongols. I even hate vet Sioux.

And I know it's supposed to be 50/50, but without Sun Tzu it seems really hard to get a vet.

[MyOlde]

Interesting to see this one come back.

Question: MWHC, if you build barracks in every city, can you do without either city walls or the Great Wall? I'm looking to save a little production here, either within my cities or in Wonders.

I suppose the question really is: what is the ideal MINIMUM effective defense?

[MyOlde]

Sorry, that's too wide-open a question. Should have said: In the early game, when you're scrambling to get everything going in some kind of balance.

[Steve Clark]

MyOlde: My typical strategy in the early game (no matter if it's bloodlust or AC) is to build 2 phalanx in each city at first, then the Great Wall and then pikemen (either building them or upgrading through Leo). That defense will suffice well into the AD against the AI and barbs. It doesn't matter if they are vets or not, it hasn't failed me yet.

[don Don]

Against the AI two phalanx/pikemen seems sufficient. I usually build barracks in my second city, and then start popping out phalanx until I have to build an improvement to stay out of disorder. Usually a newly minted phalanx tags along with each settler sent out to found a new city.

As the empire grows and travel distances to the newer cities gets long I establish more barracks cities. Then the first barracks city switches over to chars/elephs/knts. At some point I also pop out a dip for each city.

I only build walls if I end up being near a quarrelsome neighbor. Then once I'm suitably walled I tell them to go jump the next time they demand tribute.

[Sivro]

I never bother with city walls or barracks early in the game. I'd rather put two phalanxs in each city and have a few offensive units. The key is to build tons of settlers. I use some of the settlers to build roads between my cities quickly. This way, if uninvited guests show up near your cities, you can quickly move in some backup. An early, extensive system of roads is a high priority with me.