OCC: BC 3500- AC 1939

[Genghis Al]

This was much better then my first of 1984. I got toms of cash from my 2 allies. I did not get many none units so I made a dip and bribed my allies. I had like 9 units. 2 Wine 2 whale and a little river. The worst part was... My city was one space inland from the sea so I could not build ships or a harbor or a oil platform even though I had 6 ocean squars. So I never got 80 production only 66. But I had oh so many caravans that I still made 1 per turn.



I LOVE OCC

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Ah man! Ghandi! New game.

-Genghis Al

[don Don]

Hah! Beat ya by 4 years!

Location: peninsula with 2 whales, Ivory, and Gold right beside the chokepoint! Peninsula touches a corner to the South "ice cap." Map is covered almost entirely by one continent, very broad, lots of grass and plains and huts .

Keeping the log was a pain. Gave up on beakers. Later just noted milestones and order of discoveries & amounts of trade. I don't know how some claim to churn through a OCC game in just a few hours.

2 Horsemen, 4 Archers, 50 (huts)
3600 Rome
3450 Bro Chinese
3200 Mas hut
3050 50 hut, English destroyed
3000 Cer hut
2950 Alp Ch
2850 Wri French, War hut
2750 Pot, CoL Zulus
2550 Map, 50 huts, Hor Ch
2350 Mon hut
2300 Iro hut
2250 Monarchy
2200 Cur hut, 150 Barb
2100 Cst hut
1900 Colossus
1800 Mys Ch, 25 hut
1750 Mat hut
1650 50 hut
1400 Lib (Doh! Forgot to buy earlier)
1100 Mkt (earliest buy)
1050 Trade, first completed research!
950 Ally Ch, 25 hut
875 Salt caravan
725 Reach size 5, rush Temple
550 Ast
450 Sea Zu
250 Lit, Rep Fr
225 Republic
200 WLPTD
150 Size 7 food limit, 150 B
125 Copernicus
  75 Salt -> Orleans 352
  50 Philosophy Uni
1 AD Copper caravan
  40 Trireme (Be afraid!)
120 Silk caravan (not in demand)
140 Med, 150 B
160 Wool
200 Arrive Beijing, no longer wants Copper
260 Harbor
280 Whe Fr
300 Size 8, Carthage destroyed by Zu
320 ToG, Copper -> Marseilles 384
360 Shakespeare sell T
380 WLPTD
400 Aqua, size 9
420 Eng
460 Wool -> Marseilles 452
460 Size 12
500 San
520 Sewer, WLTPD
560 Size 14 (food limit)
560 Ban Fr
580 Silk -> Marseilles 654
600 Bri, Copper
720 Inv
740 Newton
800 Dem
860 Democracy
880 Copper -> Marseilles 272
900 Gun
940 Bank
1000 150 B
Eco Csc Nav Phy Met Mag
1400 Leonardo
SE, Silk -> Paris 414
WLTPD to size 19 + Settler
1500 Exchange, Dip, Gold, Coal
E1, Chi Ch, Rfg, Che
250 -> Zu
1600 Coal, Ldr, Supermkt, RR
Exp Settlers -> Engrs
WLPTD
1710 Size 22
Ind Cor Ref Stl
Gold -> Paris 392
Gems -> Lyons 438
Coal -> Lyons 151 (not in demand)
Cloth -> Tsingtao 205
1776 Ato, WLTPD
Too, Oil -> Intombe 100 (not in demand)
Size 26
1788 Darwin E2, Min
(Late, but timing is hardly critical)
2 Engrs (size 24)
Cmb Cmn
1820 Aut
(chose Cmn and dragged heels on Aut while bribing barbs)
Superhwy
Cloth -> Intombe 184 (not in demand)
Silver -> Intombe 460
Gems -> Bapedi 758
MP, MTrans
1832 Cmp, Lab, Rec
1846 Fli (dragged heels a little)
NF NP Rad Afl Mob Roc
RecCtr, Factory, Nuclear
Dye -> Marseilles 300
Gold -> Paris 483
1872 SFl Rob Esp
MFG, Platform
Wool -> Ulundi 266
Coal -> tours 456
UN [date?] (spent a Freight and rushed to beat Fr)
1888 Apollo
(rushed as soon as I had enough Freight for ship)
Pla Las CA
1900 Superconductor last necessary tech
tax -> 90% (Fusion not available, need money for ship)

1914 LAUNCH [15, 3, 3, 1, 1, 1] 21 yrs @ 97%
A few more caravans arrive, I build tanks anticipation Fr attack
1933 Fr begin ship
1935 ARRIVE AC

Looking back I think I got bogged down by food limits even after Harbor; after becoming Republic I couldn't WLPTD above 7. I should've built a settler early to chop down trees and "build" it back into the city before size 8, especially after Barbs trashed a couple tiles (at least I got their leaders). It takes 15 turns to mine Ivory (glacier) and I really needed that shield.

Also, I might have pursued Mob and Rob before Fli under Colossus & Lab combined, especially since after SFl the cost jumped from ~2800 to 4000+. This inflation persisted even though I poured out advances on my Chinese ally like water and gave many as gifts to the Zulus. I gave a few to the French; I didn't want them trading with the Chinese and getting the offensive techs. When the French discovered SFl the cost dropped back to ~3000.

PS (1/17) Forgot to say that this was at Deity level
[This message has been edited by don Don (edited January 17, 2000).]

[vik]

Here is my first attempt at an OCC log, for your review and comment. Feel free to critique my game as well as my log--i found keeping a log pretty useful, so i would appreciate any tips on better logs. sorry for the verbose editorial comments below, or for any problems you may have with margins or spacing...


4000bc alpha, bw, cerbur
3700bc hut-chariot
3650bc cardiff (celts) founded…research codelaws, build colossus
2 wheats, one silk, 5 plains, 1 shield-grass, 2 mountain, 4 forest, 5 oceans (but city is
landlocked)
3550bc hut-25 gold
3450bc hut-archers
3350bc discover codelaws, research monarchy
3100bc meet indians, trade cerbur for pottery, give bw, make alliance, 50 gold gift
2900bc hut-archers
2700bc trade codelaws for mapmaking with indians, share maps
2550bc hut-chariot
2400bc discover monarchy, research currency; revolt
2350bc meet germans, trade for masonry and currency, alliance
2300bc monarchy established
2200bc research option comes up (because I now have currency), researching trade.
I wonder why it took 3 turns for me to choose…
2100bc hut-barbarians (kilt’em!); egyptians destoyed by barbarians
2000bc note: right now (at 70% science), my city is producing 5 beakers, and discoveries, it says, are
every 13 turns. I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong – I got one arrow each from irr/roaded wheat
shield-grass, plus another for my home city square and 4 more from the sheep square.
2000bc share maps with germans, get 50 gold from indians
1850bc hut-barbs (kilt’em!)
1750bc acquire hbriding from indians
1400bc trade for warrior code with germans
1350bc hut-construction, trade it for seafaring with germans, and 100 gold gift.
New discoveries are now every 20 turns…geez
1250bc colossus built, begin building marketplace; get 50 gold from indians
1100bc finally discover trade, research mathematics; discoveries only every 16 turns
900bc get writing from germans as gift
875bc get mysticism from indians in a trade
800bc get literacy and 50 gold from germans
750bc build marketplace
700bc build library, population 6
650bc bought temple, 19 beakers, discoveries every 12 turns; 75 gold from indians
building caravan
encounter spanish—gain alliance, share maps, get 100 gold
discover mathematics, researching philosophy
475bc caravan built, building another; get 100/25/100 from germs/spanish/indians
450bc bought caravan, building another
375bc bought caravan, discover philosophy, astronomy; building CopObs, researching university
350bc hut-medicine
300bc english destoyed by zulus
250bc get 50/100/50 from germs/spanish/indians; trade for the wheel with indians
200bc oops, guess I didn’t switch. Another caravan built, switched to CopsObs for sure, now
175bc encounter americans-give astronomy, gain alliance, get 100 gold
50bc got 50 gold from germans, traded for iron working with spanish, got 100 from indians
25bc 62 gold trade route established with indians – cargo was hides to a non-demand city
1 ad 40 gold trade route est with americans – cargo was gems to a non-demand city
60 ad university discovered, researching repubic
100ad got 50 gold from spanish, 50 from germans, 25 from americans
120ad 184 gold trade route est with spanish – cargo was hides to a demand city
140ad 184 gold trade route est with spanish – hides cargo in demand (same city!)
republic discovered, researching engineering, revolt
200ad repubic established
260ad attacked the size-5 barbarian city of thebes and killed a leader for 150 gold
280ad thebes is now size 4, attacked again and got 150 more gold – it is now free of defenders
and size 3, but I guess I shouldn’t take it unless I’m playing the “2cc” and not “Occ”
340ad got 100/50/50/200 from germans/spanish/americans/indians—traded for fuedalism w/ghandhi
360ad built copsobs. Bought a colusseum
380ad colosseum built; bought a university; discovered engineering, researching sanitation
400ad university built; bought an aqueduct, killed a barb leader (in thebes again) for 150 gold
124 beakers, and discoveries every 5 turns
420ad aqueduct built, building shakespeare’s
480ad sanitation discovered, researching banking
580ad discover banking, researching theory of gravity
600ad get 100 gold and navigation with spanish; get 50/polytheism from americans; 200 from indians
660ad bought the rest of shakespeare’s
680ad shakespeare’s built, bought a bank, sold colosseum, adjusted lux rate to start we luv
700ad bank built, building sewer system, theory of grav discovered, researching economics
780ad bought sewer system, met zulus, they wanted 200 gold, so WAR!
Got 50 each from germans/spanish/americans; bridge building from americans
800ad sewer system built, building isaac newt’scol. As my city sits at 13 population, I just realized something—I won’t be able to feed all these people! I can’t build a harbor because I’m land-locked, and those 5 ocean squares are gonna hurt me! No harbor probably means no offshore platform, which will make it very hard to have 80 bucks a turn coming in later – not to mention the challenge of getting to 20+ population before refrigeration. AACCK! I’ve irrigated all but one of the original forest squares, and will be working on that soon. SUCKS!!!
800ad economics discovered, researching physics
920ad physics discovered, researching chemistry
960ad we luv peters out at 18 population, but I still have to irrigate this forest! 272 beakers every 4 turns
980ad chemistry discovered, researching invention
1000ad got 50/100/150 gold from germans/spanish/indians – that abe lincoln sure is a penny pincher!
1040ad discovered invention, researching democracy, killed barb leader for 150
1120ad disc democracy, resrch gunpowder, revolt
1160ad democracy installed
1220ad gunpowder disc, resrch steam engine
1280ad isaac newtscol built, bought a stock exchange
1300ad stock exch built, start building eiffel tower; steam engine disc, resrch railroad
discoveries every 2 turns!
1320ad got 100/100/75 from germ/span/indy; get chivalry from spanish
1340ad disc railraod, resrch metallurgy, switch from eiffel tower to dar’s voyage
1380ad disc metallurgy, resrch atomic theory (mistake—clicked too fast)
1440ad disc atomthery, rsrch explosives
1480ad got explosives, getting magnetism, got 100/150 from germans/indians
1510ad got magnetism, getting industrialization
1530ad got indust, getting electricity
1550ad got electricity, getting leadership
1570ad got leadership, getting steel
1600ad got steel, getting tactics; 100 each from germans, spanish, americans
1620ad got tactics-getting corporation
1630ad darvoy built, got corporation, got machine tools, getting refining
bought settlers
1640ad settlers built, bought more settlers—actually their engineers at this time
1650ad got refining, getting electronics; engineers built, bought factory
1660ad factory built, bought power plant
1670ad power plant built, building freight
1690ad I’m pissed now. I go to mine my 2nd mountain in order to have enough gold to kick out one freight each turn, and I find the indians back-doored me and built a ciy (using the arctic route) that is utilizing this square. The gall of this guy! It took that settler at least 20 moves over the arctic to get to me. Anyways, electronics discovered, researching miniturization, another freight built
1710ad I cancel the alliance with the indians
1730ad miniturization discovered, researching combustion
1730ad after getting my mined mountain square back, I went back to the indians on my hands an knees. I got an alliance back, but it cost me 250 gold and some knowledge (actually, it cost me 500 gold, but he gave me 250 gold back as a gift). Also made peace with the Zulus, but no alliance this time.
1754ad discover combustion, research refrigeration (I need it to get to 20+ population)
1758ad shared maps with zulus—there is at least one goodie hut still out there. Far from me, though
1760ad got monotheism and 50 gold from americans; got communism from indians, 100/150 span/germ
1764ad got refrigeration, researching flight (only option that’s not a dead end)
1766ad got 50 gold from americans
1770ad built supermarket—back to building freights
290 gold trade route est with washington; cargo was gems and to a demand-city
1772ad flight discovered, researching automobile
1774ad dumped my knowledge on the other nations—didn’t know I was that far ahead. 100 from spanish
1780ad got automobile, getting radio; bought superhighways
1782ad superhighways built, back to freights; 114 gold trade est with indians—silk cargo in demand
1786ad got radio, getting mass production
1790ad got theology, 75 gold from germans
1792ad got mass pro, getting adv flight; got amphipWF from indians
1798ad got adv flight, getting computers
1804ad got computers, getting mob warfare, bought a research lab; paul’s been chilling on AC for a year...
1808ad built research lab, back to caravans
1810ad got enough double irrigation to begin we luv to 20 (ouch!); got mobile warfare, getting robotics
1820ad got robotics, getting rocketry; building manu plant
1822ad got geurWF from indians; got gene eng from germans, 150/100/50 from germ/spanish/americans
1828ad got rocketry, getting space flight; manu plant built, back to caravans
1832ad ended we luv, with 27 population
1834ad got space flight, researching plastics, building apollo
1840ad got plastics, researching nuke fission
1846ad got nuke fisn, getting nuke power
1851ad got nuke power, getting the laser
1853ad apollo built, building SS’s – that hut I saw earlier is gone…oh well
1854ad got laser, nothing else helped, so researching labor union
1856ad pretty much forced to trade spaceflight for combined arms with indians to keep the alliance
1857ad discovered labor union, researching superconductor
1860ad got superconductor, only options were espionage and fundamentalism, getting espionage
1863ad got espionage, researching fusion power
1866ad got fusion power, researching recycling
1868ad finished 15th structural, building components now – I don’t have enough carvans/freights…until recently, it took me two turns to build a freight, so I’m a little short. I had to take all those forest squares that I originally irrigated for food, and mine them back to forests, plus one more, in order to get to 80 shields per turn by the time apollo’s was built…what looked to be a good starting square is now not so good
1870ad got recycling, getting environmentalism
1874ad last component built, starting on modules
1875ad sold sewer system (oops)
1876ad sold aqueduct (oops)
1878ad last module; LAUNCH; building solar plant; got environmentalism, getting FT-1
1880ad built solar plant, bought mass transit
1881ad built mass transit, building engineers—I’m behind in pollution and changing all those plains to forest made my size 27 drop to a size 25, plus I lost both my engineer units in the process—my NON-settler can’t keep up…
1882ad built engineers, building mech inf from now on…(just in case)
1884ad discover FT-1, researching FT-2
1888ad disover FT-2, researching fundamentalism; built barracks
1889ad built city walls just to shut my over-weight military advisor up
1890ad spanish cancel alliance because I won’t help them fight the zulus…they are both too far away to affect me…built SAM missile battery
1982ad discover fundamentalism, researching FT-3
1892ad german spaceship has 7 structurals and 4 components, with fusion power
indian spaceship has 15 structurals, 8 components, and 2 modules (and has fusion power)
no one else has started, or have even acquired space flight, as far as I know…
1893ad Arrive, AC…Cunobelin the Cruel of the Celts…Pop—2,760,000, Score—282, Rating—36%


[This message has been edited by vik (edited January 19, 2000).]

[Campo]

That is a truly interesting and amusing log. I could almost feel your reactions at some of the developments.

[Aurelius]

Hi Vik,
I read through a lot of your log. I was surprised that you never built a Mass Transit or a Recycling Plant and you still managed to get your ship built in the minimum time. Those engineers must have been scrambling and pre-working the land!

Your first log was better than mine. I just finished a new game with an 1884 AC date. I kept a better second log than my fortnight thingy. I have the position saved if you're interested. Man, I must say, having so much ocean and being land locked is not easy. You did great to get an 1800's score.

I guess all good strategy/tactics games have a way of being recorded--like chess or go or even bridge. A strict log with only science and money and hut stuff is quite dull to me. Your annotated log is more entertaining...I actually laughed about the pesky indian settler moving twenty artic tiles to get to you! DAMN is the AI confounding at times

And the kilt'd Barbarian--You must have seen Brave Heart too (Or it is a common thing to Celts.)

Another interesting thing in your log was the dead end science that led to an early flight. I'm curious, if you research one of those DE advances, will you get more options for the next science advance or do the choices narrow to flight? Obviously we don't want to lose Colossus too soon--but it is a big decision.

Concerning science, I've been avoiding late year science trade. I use to think that getting all sciences possible before Colossus expired was good...but now I realize that some sciences will never need researching before Fusion. But also, with every new science developed, the next science is a bit longer --(maybe an einstein longer ) Looking at your log, you seem to toy with the specialist too. Do you find the cut off point for your science and then make the other specialists taxman to maximize the money and minimize the science overflow? (It appears so.)

So has this thread evolved to the point of practiced logs? I'm thinking of posting my recent log. We can compare notes if you'd like. Or maybe we should start a OCC logs .sav thread. An informal affair.

Thanks, Aurelius.

[Sten Sture]

Well first of all let me remind you that I couldn't even get to 1000AD ON MY OWN DAMN MAP!!! sorry, I've calmed down now.

Noticed that you got Med early when you were building Copers. I might have switched to Shakes, and grown to 12 and then built Copers later. It would have nullified the need to build a Coliseum. Saving a few turns. That is how I would do it if I ever lasted that long in a game!

Also, after launch, if I have the tech to build defensive units, I usually set science and lux to zero and tax to 100% incase I want to buy anything...well at least I would.

[vik]

Aurelius,

Let me just say I am absolutely thrilled to have somebody comment on my log and game. I have been anxiously looking for some kind of feedback for a whole day or two.

I believe that keeping a good log is one of the things that will help you land earlier, so I was looking for a log critique as well as a game critique.

I put some extra stuff in there, and at the time it wasn't meant to be entertaining, but just my thought process at the moment.

As far as the details of your response: Actually, it took me one extra turn to build the SS. I didn't have enough caravans or money to rush my last SSmodule, so I had to wait one turn.
I had my one settler and a built two additional engineers to go with him. On the turns I had pollution, those two guys could knock it out immediately, and on the No Pollution turns, they could help the settler do whatever he was doing. I didn't terraform my plains into mountains because I thought it would take too long, so I mined them into forests instead.
As soon as I realized I wouldn't have enough food to reach 20+ population, I terraformed 2 plains into shield-grass. This was before pollution was that bad of a problem. My theory is that instead of building MassXit or Recycacenter, I should build caravans, because I didn't have very many.

For the decision to research flight, I guess you know what I meant by a "dead-end" science. For anyone who doesn't, I define a dead-end science as any advance that is not a pre-req for Space flight, plastics, superconductor, or fusion power. It includes advances such as Labor Union, Espionage, Communism, Fudamentalism, and maybe recycling (I don't have my tech-tree in front of me right now, and I can't remember).

Believe me, I hated researching that before computers or even having SuperHighways, but those ocean squares, useless as they were to a land-locked city, still produced a lot of trade arrows -- plus, I trade the AI's every tech I had every few turns, so I was never that far ahead of them in advances -- I think that, to some degree, governs how many beakers you need for the next advance. Plus, you can trade away for things like Communism, Theology, Fundamentalism, etc., and never have them show up as an option again later. I usually try *not* to give them space flight unless they threaten to cancel an alliance. If I have to give them space flight, I try not to give away plastics, etc. until I have to.

Concerning specialists, I did not even consider a taxman, but you bring up a great point for me to ponder. I will definately have to explore that one! Basically, all my extra citizens were Einstiens. Since I was so late going to 20+ population, I didn't need any elvis. I always adjusted science rate from the menu (the Shift-T menu -- forgot the title), and I either was making a little money, or losing some in order to keep the rate of discoveries as high as possible.

I probably need to do a better job of tracking science rate and what my specialties are doing, but I think you also need to try and paint a picture of what you're doing. Otherwise, a new player might not see anything wrong with a landlocked city with 5 ocean squares. That *really* hurt me later -- i learned never to do *that* again.

I hope we can find a place to post logs for us guys not in the fortnight competition. It was my first crack at it, and I want to know if I'm doing it okay. If you would like to post your recent log, I would be happy to compare notes. I'm all for the informal affair you suggest.

Edited to include my response to Sten's response...

Great observation, Sten. I think you are right on the mark with that. It definitely would have been easier to build COP's with 12 automatically content people in the city. Not to mention the corresponding savings in time and money. I didn't even consider doing that. Nice eye!


[This message has been edited by vik (edited January 21, 2000).]

[Aurelius]

Hi Vik,

Yeah, it was you'res and don Don's logs in Genghis' thread that made me think of a misc log thread. Hope other's join in.

I've learned a lot from looking at Paul's and CtG's logs recently and several threads have shed light on OCC matters.

I'm probably not the person to model your log after,but we all have ideas to share. I think keeping a log slows my play down too! I get so spastic with the "end turn" button

I was reading Sten's comments regarding Shakes before Copernicus...In my fortnight game, I had no choice but to build Copernicus first as the Vikings were building Copernicus. In most of my games, I find the AI is more inclined to build the science wonder than Shakes....might be a coincidence...oh...in the fornight game, I had plenty of time to get a Colleseum built while waiting for science.

I'd say one thing about Fortnight, it is pretty informal (especially my contribution ) In the game, I thought I was a gonner when the Big Horsy Barbarians landed in the midst of my freight...thank goodness for the diplomat defender and some money.

See ya elsewhere!

Aurelius

[Sten Sture]

Good point Aurelius! It is REALLY hard to build Copers if someone else already has it!

[Paul]

Vik, as you asked here are some comments on your log.

First, I notice that your city only had one trade special; those wheat squares are nice to grow faster early in the game but science (trade) is more important in OCC. You can always grow with WLTCD when you get republic. Early in the game whales are very good all-purpose specials and I would definitely recommend having one or two in your city radius. Combined with gold, wine, spice or gems this will give you more trade and faster research.

I would also build the library before the marketplace, but you finished your library only two turns after the marketplace so that probably didn't make too big a difference. I would also recommend getting an aqueduct and colosseum and getting republic/WLTCD before you start Copernicus. Building and research goes much faster at size 12 than at size 7.

I also think that you should delay railroad until after refrigeration; at least that's what I always do. I see that you delayed refrigeration very long; I will list my own preferred research path for OCC here:

Bronze, Monarchy, Writing, Trade, Construction, Republic, Astronomy, Medicine, Sanitation, University, Banking, Gravity, Economics, Explosives, Refrigeration, Railroad, Automobile, Computers, Robotics, Space Flight, Plastics, Superconductor, Fusion Power.

Researching Flight so early before Computers and Automobile is not recommended; the expiration of Colossus at such an early stage probably costs you more than researching a dead-end tech.

Some comments on the comments:

Aurelius, I also never build Mass Transit/Recycling Plant in OCC; my two engineers can clean up as Vik already mentioned.

Sten, as I already mentioned you should get to 12 with a colosseum before you start Copernicus; I would not build Shakespeare before Copernicus.

[Scouse Gits]

Paul,

I don't think I have previously seen so much wisdom encapsulated in a single posting!

I am not worthy!

Very Many Thanks

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[vik]

Paul,

Good words! thanks for the time and the wisdom.

quote: Originally posted by Paul on 01-22-2000 10:45 AM Aurelius, I also never build Mass Transit/Recycling Plant in OCC; my two engineers can clean up as Vik already mentioned.

The real truth is that I started using this method after reading one of Paul's posts. So don't anyone begin to credit me for this "innovation."

thanks again

[don Don]

With aggressive neighbors who take pot-shots at your Engrs with their Cavalry you can find yourself suddenly without pollution cleanup capacity. With such neighbors even giving into all demands sometimes will not keep them at bay once the space race begins.

[crowatbitemedotcom]

Good point Don, I've had so many engineers killed by $&#@ ironclads it isn't funny.

Speaking of pollution, I was playing an OCC game last night and got a pollution square at the far NW corner of my city radius. My engineer was busy mining and I only had 4 yellow triangles so I decided to ignore it for a while. Lo and behold, two turns later a Viking settler shows up and starts cleaning up my pollution! They didn't even have a city working the square! Has anyone seen this before?

[vik]

guess those vikings were concerned about their final score...

i haven't seen any ai cleaning up any pollution yet -- that viking settler sounded like a good bribing candidate.