Perfect Invasion

[SandMonkey]

Smash -

You can still use a sub's strength and relatively cheap cost to your advantage though.

Another way to use them might be to build some destroyers to almost bait the AI into attacking you, and with sub's near by you could just take them out. quite a stretch, i know, and a large waste of units. But i think a sub is a lot cheaper than building a battleship or even a cruiser. Park it in the middle of a sealane and watch the kills pile up.

------------------
SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

[klesh]

Hendrik,

I think the ai can't see your sub, but CAN see the nukes or cruise missiles inside!
which sucks by the way.
If you notice at the end of moving a sub with sleeping missiles, the missles overlap the sub when it's move points are up.

I think this was mentioned in another thread I've read here... try it out

[Fiji]

when the end-game (~modernday tech) starts and there's a continent that I don't yet have a bridgehead on (which meens there's at least 1 ocean that I can't ignore), I often use SSN like units ... iow, a sub with 3 to 5 crs msls and 1 or 2 nukes (if MP hasn't been build ... add 2 or 3 crs msls).

Now, when 2 or 3 of those bastards hit the contested ocean ... WATCH OUT.

I once played a game like this against the french-english aliance, their combined fleet outnumbered me something like 15 to 1.
Then, one turn, my 3 SSNs (plus 2 landbased nukes) took out (best guess) ~8 Battleships, ~8 AEGIS, ~14 cruisers, ~?? destroyers (tons of em), 2 or 3 transports (only half full) and 2 carriers (almost empty)

ok, there were probably douzens of better ways to defeat the alliance fleet, but this one was by far the most fun!

[Hendrik the Great]

And I was so enjoying myself that the AI couldn't see me coming. Anyway, they are still useful.

However, having a few missiles on them opens other wonderfull possibilities as Fiji pointed out. Also if you have to happen a carrier full with bombers and fighter-plains it can prove to be the best naval weapon there is. I once took out the entire Spanish and Roman fleet with two carrier task forces.
They did have an escort of about 15 other ships though...
[This message has been edited by Hendrik the Great (edited January 05, 2000).]

[Smash]

Ok I built some subs last night in a single player game and yes,the ai is good at putting their ships where they can be sunk.I parked a few here and there and they have earned their keep with tonnage sent to the depths.

I would say you definetly want the extra movement of Magellan's

[SandMonkey]

Smash -

Like I said before, I have to agree that Magellan's is a definite must for using subs. The can't get away on the same turn if you don't have it.

Hendrik -

In the few games which i have played on the world map i have found using carriers rather helpful. If you are trying to invade S. America or Africa from an opposite continent, they make it much easier to safely move a few transports across the ocean. The air cover you get from the planes makes it a lot easier to take out opposing naval presence. But of course, using a million destroyers can work just as well.

------------------
SandMonkey

"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a qtip"
-Homer Simpson

[jlmk]

Well, I'd definitely cross marines out.They're too weak for anything.And with the submarines, their great if you have nukes or cruise missiles as torpedoes in them.
[This message has been edited by jlmk (edited January 05, 2000).]

[My Wife Hates CIV]

The perfect invasion is the invasion that catches your enemy by complete surprise.

Here's my current units.gif (I've modified the rules.txt to use these units). The AI uses most of them pretty good. I'm still playing around with some numbers and science to get the units. but...
http://www.i2k.com/~density/units.jpg

Spy Plane, nil, 1, 36.,2, 0a,1d, 1h,1f, 22,0, 6, U3, 000000000000011
Super Carrier,nil, 2, 8.,0, 2a,18d, 2h,1f, 42,0, 2, Las, 000000010000001
Adv MI Unit, nil, 0, 4.,0, 7a,8d, 3h,1f, 6,0, 1, Sup, 000000000000000
SEAL Unit, nil, 0, 2.,0, 16a,2d, 5h,1f, 24,0, 0, X2, 000001000000111
Sea Wolf, nil, 2, 6.,0, 18a,9d, 4h,2f, 16,0, 5, X1, 110000000001001
Mobile SAM, nil, 0, 2.,0, 1a,5d, 2h,2f, 9,0, 1, X2, 010000000000000
Jet fighter, nil, 1, 12.,1, 7a,3d, 2h,2f, 6,0, 3, U2, 000000000010001
Adv Armor, nil, 0, 4.,0, 12a,6d, 4h,2f, 12,0, 0, X1, 000000000000001
Rocket Lch, nil, 0, 1.,0, 15a,1d, 3h,1f, 14,0, 0, Sup, 000000001000000
Tomahack, nil, 1, 18.,1, 24a,0d, 2h,4f, 8,0, 0, U3, 001000000000000
Diplomat, nil, 0, 1.,0, 0a,1d, 1h,1f, 3,0, 6, Esp, 000000000000011


; 000000000000001 = Two space visibility
; 000000000000010 = Ignore zones of control
; 000000000000100 = Can make amphibious assaults
; 000000000001000 = Submarine advantages/disadvantages
; 000000000010000 = Can attack air units (fighter)
; 000000000100000 = Ship must stay near land (trireme)
; 000000001000000 = Negates city walls (howitzer)
; 000000010000000 = Can carry air units (carrier)
; 000000100000000 = Can make paradrops
; 000001000000000 = Alpine (treats all squares as road)
; 000010000000000 = x2 on defense versus horse (pikemen)
; 000100000000000 = Free support for fundamentalism (fanatics)
; 001000000000000 = Destroyed after attacking (missiles)
; 010000000000000 = x2 on defense versus air (AEGIS)
; 100000000000000 = Unit can spot submarines
;


[This message has been edited by My Wife Hates CIV (edited January 06, 2000).]

[klesh]

Also, fusion power adds 1 more move point to the subs. which when combine dwith Magellan's is deadly.
I'd like to see 2 classes of subs though. An attack sub(pretty much the existing one) and a missile sub. the missle sub should get better def. rating as it becomes way too valuable with 3 or 4 nukes up in it to be sunk by an enemy bomber or AGEIS.
If I knew how to customize my own units (rules.txt right?) I'd try this, but I'm still trying to get all that stuff straight.