Apolyton Hall of Fame

[La Fayette]

MY thumb up to those who try to organize our common knowledge (and make it easier to read).
This includes Mark G., Ming, the SGs, SlowThinker and Marquis de Sodaq (please forgive me if I forget someone else who deserves being mentioned in that field).

[popcornvendor]

oh yeah?? well i think you should give me a prize for......... um.... give me a prize for.......... um........ for........ *breaks down crying* i dunno!!!!!!! *runs away*

[TCO]

In terms of game research,
oedo years are stunningly elegant...although propably not that crucial. unless you are a total micro-manager.

I vote for Ming's first OCC as the best.

[KrazyHorse]

All I can say is: beaker costs and tech availability are, to me, the largest contributions mentioned. Oedo years are elegant, but I've got to say that I had them figured out myself, since their pattern is so obvious. I only joined Apolyton a few days ago in anticipation of CivIII, but when I came across this thread I was amazed. The beaker cost analysis is probably more important in terms of gameplay, since it can make up to a 50% difference in research times, but the tech availability scheme is quite simply more impressive for the depth required even to see the xxo pattern. I'd never even thought of counting my tech-number as it corresponded to that annoying lack of choices. Quite frankly, I'd given up and decided it was random. By the way, you guys are my heros for unravelling all those little things I'd always wondered about.

[Hasdrubal]

And the Oscars go to:

Oedo - so infuriatingly simple that I could kick myself for never having discovered it.

Xin Yu - for sheer depth and analytical insight.

SG, others - for the Great Library.


to everybody else who have helped to unravel the mysteries of this game.

[debeest]

So far, Oedo years seem to be the favorite. The cost-of-science and key-civ joint discovery ranks high. The general idea of the Great Library is very popular, and OCC (including the basic SSC idea) too.

Personally, I think the most spectacular combination of usefulness and creative insight is Samson's verification and identification of the key civ idea, combined with detailed description of its implications for science cost and the enumeration of its exact results. The underlying programming is so thoroughly absurd. Putting together your position on the power chart with the order of play -- whose idea was that?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned anything having to do with trade, since so many people are so madly devoted to it. Maybe because WE STILL HAVEN'T DEVELOPED A FORMULA THAT IDENTIFIES THE SPECIFIC FACTORS THAT DETERMINE THE PAYOFF!!! (hint to researchers)

I think Oedo's discovery about how the techs available for researching are determined is truly insightful, probably the second most insightful discovery of all, although personally I haven't tried to use it because it seems like even more work than I'm willing to do. Have people been taking advantage of it? Is it very helpful?

I originally mentioned the combat calculations because the manual describes how it works, but the manual is wrong, and yet someone managed to determine (1) that it's not one-random-draw-from-a-pool but two-random-numbers-head-to-head, with ties going to the defense, explaining how even a diplomat can sometimes win; and (2) that the head-to-head combat calculations produce a result strikingly different from appearances. A relative strength of 3 versus 2 produces a per-round odds of 4-2, and over a number of rounds that produces great dominance for the stronger unit. More important than people seem to think.

I originally mentioned the barbarian research because of all the different stuff that's included: no barbarians from huts before founding first city; unit in only city invulnerable to barbarians; barbarians from specific terrains; techs which allow specific barbarian units; melting polar barbarians, etc.

I'd love to see more suggestions that we haven't already mentioned here.

[TCO]

Y'all are totally missing the point. Ming's OCC was like Roger Bannister running a THREE minute mile. (Not just breaking a barrier, but doing something that no-one would have ever thought possible AT ALL.)

When I tell people not on this site about OCC, it blows their mind. Oedo years are way smaller deal to them.

[solo]

I have to agree with GP. I was not around at the time, but Ming's first OCC win has to take top prize. Reading posts about the early tries and of the first success conveyed the excitement and elan about doing what was considered outlandish at the time. Being first is something no one can ever take away, so my hat's off to Ming.

[debeest]

Yes, I have to admit, when someone first told me that it was possible to win the game with just one city, I was flabbergasted. If any one person was responsible for putting together a large part of the strategy for doing so, I would certainly have to consider that a pretty astounding accomplishment. I've been giving the credit for that (in my mind) to Paul because his Paulicy is the posted detailed elucidation. If Ming developed much of the strategy, then my hat's off to ming.

[War4ever]

Ming was the first, but Paul took OCC to new levels, again, along game Ribbanah....so where does this OCC madness end.....

[Ming]

I just used all the knowledge that this site and my friends provided. Yeah, I was the first... but Paul took it to the next and ultimate level. Me and Rah traded records for a while, but then Paul did it right. His records are truely impressive

[rah]

Yeah it was really funny, Ming would have the record one day, the next day I would, the following day Ming would, Then Paul game along and eliminated about a third of the crap that Ming and I were wasting time researching/building and beat our puny records by so much, that we were very discouraged. By the time we got back to Paul's original starting point, he had progressed much much farther. It's about that time the Ming and I lost interest It was very obvious that we were out of our league.

RAH

[samson]

OCC is definitely the premiere accomplishment of this forum. The archived thread of Ming's first game and the Ming/Rah battle for the record still pulses with energy after all this time. And it's not just those first few games. Paul's development of a canonical OCC strategy and Ribannah's innovations also make for exciting and enlightening reading. The fact that so many contributed to OCC makes it truly a Forum achievement. Nowhere else that I know of are so many fine games logged in such detail -- like great chess matches they convey the thrill of the game as it played out. Also, OCC has produced several unique insights into the workings of the game and inspired the development of tactics and strategies that might never have come to light.

But perhaps its most lasting impact has been as witness to the fact that the "impossible" is often merely the untried.

[solo]

My hat's also off to the unique and masterful accomplishments of everyone who has "climbed Mt. Everest", but the first successful ascent belonged to Hillary and Norgay. Can everyone remember who was second, or third, or who did it faster or more times?

[TCO]

Here's a link to the original "Bannister/Hillery" thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2156&perpage=30&pagenumber=1