Pikes and the Great Wall

[Scouse Gits]

In my current game my peaceful Mongols (Spotless Republic) are being beset by aggressive Americans, with the GW, who insist upon sneak attacking more or less every fourth turn. By way of war reparations each time they do this I relieve them of a city before accepting their pleas for peace once more.

Now - these cities are defended by Pikemen + GW and I am attacking with (mainly green) Crooks and should be losing them by the shedload - but I am not! It generally takes two Crooks per Pike, sometimes three - surely this does not agree with our received wisdom on Combat Resolution?

There is a rationale that suggests that the Pike's advantage against Horse (hiding behind very spikey fences) should not apply when they are stood on top of large stone walls - but I have never seen any suggestion that this should be the case in Civ.

Does a Pike lose its special defence when behind the GW?

Does a Pike lose its special defence when behind real City Walls?

Am I just a lucky b*stard as SG(2) says?

SG[1]

[rah]

Are you taking into account that when you're behind a wall, being fortified doesn't count into your defense?

[rek]

hi,

I've got another question about pikemen, and can't find an answer in the many threads of the Grat Library.

What's the defense rate of a pikemen in MP vs. for example a catapult, if I play at double move rate?
Is it *2 against units that usually have 1 move, and 2 in MP?

[Boco]

Er...what's a crook?

If a Crook is a Crusader, then you're having a little good luck but not that great. On average, I think you can expect to lose 2.7 Crusaders per Pike.

[Ming]

Isn't it nice to see what a science it has become

[War4ever]

Originally posted by Ming
Isn't it nice to see what a science it has become

sire , before we send our men to death, let us calculate the exact odds of the battle and see if they are acceptable to you

well done...with a colorfull chart even i can figure it out

[DrSpike]

SG IMO you are just jammy.

[Boco]

The 'science' comes in very handy when you're designing a unit mix for a new scenario. Didn't mean to spoil the fun for players.

[rah]

Is that utility program available? If so, where?

[DrSpike]

I spy an addition to Rah rules coming up.

[rah]

I highly doubt it would be used much. Maybe in between games. I can calc the approx odds in my head quite quickly, but it would be nice to see the exact percentage for certain situations.

[DrSpike]

Yes, the shortcut provides a reasonably accurate approximation, and most people can do sums like (1*1.5)/2. Doing a bunch of binomial calculations in your head is a little trickier. Fortunately it isn't necessary from a practical gameplay point of view.

[Boco]

Is that utility program available? If so, where?

It is buried in a 'poly thread or two. Question is, should it be made more available? It's in the hands of ST and a few scenario designers.

I rarely use it during a game. It's not so useful there. Like Rah says, instinct/experience/rough approximations provide a faster and sufficiently accurate answer. Plus when n=1, your result may vary just a little from average.

I posted the screendump to show the modifiers (in case I was wrong) as well as the predicted results.

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks all - the problem is now moot.

Washington (GW + MP) is now Mongolia's most Western outpost.

(It took 13 Crooks to subdue 2 Musks + 2 Archers behind GW + real City Walls - which remain standing)

SG[1]

[La Fayette]

This guy SG[1] kills so many crusaders (with bad odds) that I guess he is an infidel