ELG: A couple of things bugging me...

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by La Fayette

I would say that rehoming is OK as long as you state that you use it, and as long as it is not forbidden by those who wrote the rule of the kind of game you are playing.

I go along with this. OK I know it's banned in comparison games, but in RL "rehoming" is pretty much what every large city does. I'd allow rehoming and ban black clicking, hutfinder and all other such black arts

Of course it's not practical do this, so I'll just do it in the privacy of my own study

RJM at Sleepers

[Elephant]

Originally posted by Paradox
Somewhat impossible yes id say....unless Elephant has achieved what others have failed to do

I thought we were discussing ELCGs, not OCCs. I think you meant SG(2).

No sense banning what you cannot possibly detect, such as black-clicking and hut/special pattern knowledge. It is no more a "black art" than using the Supply/Demand equations to predict changes in city commodities. Ban the obvious exploits that have major undue influence on the game, such as reloading, rehoming, unsinkable ships/planes and FCT.

If you want a pretty comprehensive list of game "exploits", check the "Tricks and Cheats" list by Starlifter over in CFC's GOTM forum.

[Elephant]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers


but in RL "rehoming" is pretty much what every large city does.

I dont understand what you mean there...

[SCG]

Originally posted by solo
Could that be because rehoming is harder to do with just one city?

if you bribed an AI caravan or freight outside your sphere of influence, it of course would be a NON unit. And for me, that is the only time i would rehome a caravan or freight. Not sure what the overall consensus is on that particular loophole.

[solo]

Paradox,

The rules we went by in OCC games were all spelled out in Paul's guide. Later on, by consensus, we added a prohibition against building a settler before the city reaches size two. (One case when the city does survive when doing this is when its your only one).

SCG,

That's why I said hard to do. If there is a general rule against rehoming in effect like in the EL comparison games, it would have to apply to any AI caravans one bribes. In OCC, rehoming was not prohibited, so this was a possibble tactic in those games.

[Elephant]

I had not considered bribed caravans from another civ. Delivering them would give you minimal bonus and no trade route if they were NONE, right? Aside from another wonder-building option (a bad value unless they cost less than 200g, which I have never seen), they would seem to be of no use unless they were allowed to be rehomed to the city of your choice. The only place I have used this was in trying Smash's OCC Size 1 games.

[SCG]

Originally posted by Elephant
I had not considered bribed caravans from another civ. Delivering them would give you minimal bonus and no trade route if they were NONE, right? Aside from another wonder-building option (a bad value unless they cost less than 200g, which I have never seen), they would seem to be of no use unless they were allowed to be rehomed to the city of your choice. The only place I have used this was in trying Smash's OCC Size 1 games.

in the No-Science Succession game, I bribed a german caravan. Since i wasn't entirely sure on the policy for caravans bribed, i kept running the caravan off the roadon turns it was in reach of a city using settlers, diplomats, etc so that it wouldn't enter a city and i could bribe it when it was in the city limits of the best available city (it became homed in Bessemer - i didn't want to wait till i could force it to Arkwright which would have been about the only choice better than Bessemer)

the eventual bribe cost was 160 - here's a picture from the round before i purchaced it.

[Paradox]

Apologies Elephant...i did indeed mean SG2 and i now see it IS possible to rehome in a OCC......didnt make sense when it was mentioned as i thought SG2 was referring to your own caravans and couldnt figure how that was done...clearly he meant a exploiting bribed caravans. All cleared up

[Elephant]

Neat trick, SCG; I was thinking OCC, where I rarely find caravans heading to my own city, so bribing them elsewhere gives me a NONE to bring home. I really dont like other civs caravans screwing up my nice fat trade routes, but sometimes have to abide by the no-rehome rules and just force a mini-war to kill them off. Does rehoming that way change the Supply commodities list?

[SCG]

it won't affect supply lists directly, as its just like having a caravan built before the supply list changed. of course delivery is one of many triggers that causes supply lists to update so it could indirectly affect the lists. And if you get a commodity that isn't going to be produced by that city, if you deliver to an appropriately large city, it makes it tons easier to keep supply lists unblocked

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Elephant


I dont understand what you mean there...

I meant that in real life, large cities act as collection points for onward delivery of goods. Very few of the goods shipped from London in the 18th and 19th centuries were actualy grown or made there. As a result London benefited from all the additional employment, people, etc. (Although given the living conditions and mortality rate, I'm not sure benefited is quite the right word.)

RJM at Sleepers

[DrSpike]

Reality justifications for things like rehoming annoy me.......The primary focus must always be gameplay. In this case it is likely that rehoming was not intended to be allowed, and it removes the need to trade as skillfullly.

Hence rehoming.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by DrSpike
The primary focus must always be gameplay. In this case it is likely that rehoming was not intended to be allowed, and it removes the need to trade as skillfullly.

It is likely that black clicking and artificial aids such as hutfinder were not intended to be allowed, and they remove the need to explore skillfully.

RJM at Sleepers

[Straybow]

Not the same really. Attempts to rehome a Caravan or Freight using the "h" key or via the Orders menu results in a popup reading, "You cannot change the home city of a trade unit." A clear indication of the designers' intent.

[SlowThinker]

I see a big difference between hutfinder and black clicking.

Black clicking is something extremely unnatural (and so I never do it).

HutFinder only helps you: You could do yourself all the computations that HutFinder does or after an extensive study of maps and seeds you could master them so that you don't need any HutFinder or seed pictures.

But I agree that Civ2 creators should do maps more fortuious. A part of the entertainment from exploration is lost.