Early Landing Comparison Game #1

[Scouse Gits]

ST - could you please post a link to your beaker calculator.

--------------------

SG(2)

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
ST - could you please post a link to your beaker calculator.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55683

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by solo

Please note that if you and some others want more time to complete the first game, please let me know, and I can extend the deadline another week.

Solo,

I have been sick and unable to play the past week, but should be able to finish by the Sunday deadline--meaning, I hope, sometime Sunday. If the deadline is Saturday, midnight, I might be in trouble.

Monk

[solo]

Welcome to Tim and thanks for that tip. Also thanks to ST for providing the link to this useful utility.

Sorry to hear you've been sick, Monk, and I hope it's nothing serious. I don't think players should have to feel any stress in order to finish their games in time, and have decided to extend the deadline for the first game until Sunday, March 16th, since I know there are others who might have preferred more time, too. Let's see, over 20 downloads of the start and only a handful of logs posted so far.

I hope the few who finished early and are waiting for the next game to begin don't mind a little longer wait.

I am working on a guide, but it is going slowly. Writing strategy guides is not a much fun as playing the game.

[Scouse Gits]

ST - Thanks I have downloaded and will try it out in my next game

---------------------

SG(2)

[Bloody Monk]

AC-1335

Close but no cigar.

I knew going in that my only shot at beating Solo's time would be doing something unconventional and getting very lucky. This game has multiple deviations from the proven plan, mostly to try and compensate for my inferior knowledge of trade.

At the end it came down to a weak finish. I just didn't have the cash on hand or enough freights to immediately build the ship and launch. Also, the path I took meant extra tech carrying costs all along. Whereas Solo got Fusion as his 73rd tech, for me it was #76. And I probably miscalculated the number of extra parts-cities I needed to build a faster ship.

I will post the Highlights and the launch turn save, now. The rest of the log will have to wait as I need to rebuild it. I did something wrong and it has disappeared.

Highlights

Governments
Revolutions to:
Monarchy.........2300b
Republic.............550b
Democracy.........520a
Fundy...............1324a

Wonders of the World
Hanging Gardens..................550b
Shakespeare's Theatre.........225b
Colossus.................................. 1a
Copernicus............................200a
Issac Newton........................440a
Michaelangelo.......................500a
Leo's Shop............................720a
Darwin..................................820a
Apollo..................................1220a

Events of Note
SSC:
size......8.........175
.......... 12......... 75b
...........23........180a
...........24........320a

Advances:
Trade..............825b
RR...................700a
Industry..........760
Auto................900
Computers....1100
Flight.............1100
Space............1200
Fusion...........1260
Launch..........1320
Landing.........1335

Launch save

[rjmatsleepers]

Re: AC-1335

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Close but no cigar.

I will post the Highlights and the launch turn save, now.

Very impressive

I have a question. You apparently delayed founding Antium (or else you did some subtle renaming). I guess this was in order to do some exploring with your settlers. Is this a standard ploy or one of your specials for this game?

RJM at Sleepers

[rjmatsleepers]

Re: AC-1335

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
Close but no cigar.

At the end it came down to a weak finish. I just didn't have the cash on hand or enough freights to immediately build the ship and launch.

Sorry - another question.

Since you were short of cash, why didn't you sell your research lab. Is this because you had sold Sewer System, Aqueduct, etc?

RJM at Sleepers

[Scouse Gits]

Monk - Brilliant Game. I have just made a quick comparison with solo's save and I note you built twice as many cities. As you launched only three turns after him, this presents a serious challenge to the lean and mean approach. Perhaps larger empires are making a comeback in the early landing stakes? In the light of this masterful result I think we will all have to rethink our strategies for the next challenge.

----------------------

SG(2)

[solo]

Monk,

Wow! You are doing much better, and I had better watch out in the next game! You have been one of the few to get some good colonies established. In my earlier no hut games I was also very short of resources when it came to building a ship, which is why I now work so hard to maximize profits from trade while there is a chance.

SG(2) is right about rethinking strategy, especially early in the game. His game and yours were more successfull in the early going than my own, probably due to a better government earlier and sticking with Monarchy for more tribute opportunities until Republic was required for celebrations. It could be that I can still make up for this delay later with more 1 and 2 tech turns due to lower carrying costs. If you guys get trade working better in the next game, it might provide a good comparison of differing early strategies, as I plan to stick pretty close to what I did in this game.

I really look forward to seeing Monk's log, if it can be reconstructed. Again, congrats on this excellent game!

[ottok]

Monk is profesional,arent?

[Bloody Monk]

My Friends,

Please wait just a bit before you jump to any conclusions. The log is coming along and that will be a better way than the Highlights to examine the game.

There are, I think, good reasons to found the SSC later. I'll go into that in the log. I had nine cities, only, for most of the game. The last nine were added nearer the end to provide a wider base for spaceship parts--and a faster ship. And the SSC Lab was carried over because I wanted to get Stealth for Stealth Fighter units in the aftermath portion, not knowing how rabid the AI would become. The $ it would have provided was too little to matter.

When I finish the log, we can discuss whether or not any-ANY-of the extra stuff I did really helped, and to what degree. I am still convinced that Solo's gameplan is the best model. And that everyone will do well to study his approach and maybe play that way at least once. Then the understanding will come that it is not just Lean for the sake of being lean; but, a highly refined version of KISS. Everything is about Time and only doing what is necessary. I suspect I did a lot of unnecessary stuff.

Deviation from the Solo plan was acceptable to me only because of the special circumstances of this map. We will take this up later.

Monk
edit for sentence structure

[La Fayette]

Anyway, Monk, this game puts you close to the master, and I am convinced that the master is happy, because the master is not that kind of masters who love to hide behind their secrets.
Hurrah for you and thanks to the master

[Bloody Monk]

1335 AC logs

Everyone,

I tried to reconstruct this log with enough detail so that other players could see and understand how and why I made these choices. This is a fun way to play; but, it is quite different from the usual gameplay in some important ways.

One last observation: don't try to play when you are sick. Some of my decisions at the end were less than awe inspiring.

I broke the log into two parts and will end with the final save before landing. The save of the launch turn has been posted previously.


First Early Landing Comparison Game Log



Explore a bit first. Don't like the obvious 2-wine SSC site for first city as it will be shield poor at first, and building on the rivers will give extra arrows. Also, I like to have the SSC further down the list so its beakers will carry over after an advance is learned.

3850--Found Rome (R) at (21,19) and Veii (V) at (19,17); research Alpha

3750--Alpha --> CB

3600--(R)-warrior --> warrior; (V) warrior --> settler

3500--CB --> Writing Sci = 9

3300--(R)/(V) size 2 Sci = 7

3200--Exploring warrior meets Mongols --> Peace

It was around this time that I made some strategic decisions. The land seemed more cramped with few whales and silk sites that would provide fast growth by shields and arrows. But the river system and a moderate sleaze would allow for short lines of communication to the SSC for Wonders and Trade. In time, the SSC developed with mines would become powerful; time better spent in Monarchy so the necessary food eaters would not be so difficult or draining. Also, the proximity of the Mongs argued for building more units than usual under an early republic. So I decided to delay Republic until the benifits of Monarchy were exhausted.

3300--Writing --> Code

2850--(V) settler

2750--SSC Antium (A) founded at (18, 12) and Cumae (C) founded at (19, 21)

A note about city placement. Solo has shown the advantage of placing cities on the coast. They can build boats and harbors; boats because this is essentially a trade based game, and harbors to reduce the need for irrigating. ASAP, new cities will build a sett to found the next city, until six or seven are laid down. Then colony cities will need to be founded. Between the two goals, roads need to be quickly done for the extra arrow and movement.

2600--Code --> Monarchy

2550--(A)/(C)-warrior --> settler; move workers to max arrows-->sci =7; (R) size 2.

2500--(V) size 2...sci =6

2300--Monarchy --> Literacy (place embargo on Monarchy as gift until Republic can be learned and gifted--I want a Mong Republic)...Revolt --> Roman Monarchy begins!

Getting the nation out of Despotism quickly plus having a wise King to prepare the peeps and the infrastructure for a later change to Republic works well in this case.

Early Republic makes sense where the SSC is at least size 3 already, and Shake's Theatre and an aquaduct are imminent. Until it can grow the SSC, I think Republic's extra arrows are washed by it's limited ability to support settlers at this vital time.

Apart from 100g I received once from the Mongs, nothing was gained from demanding tribute from the non-allies. They always declined. Not wanting a war, I only demanded once from the Mongs.

2200--Gift CB to Mongs...sci = 6. Station warrior on swamp (11, 27) to bottle up the Mongs.

Unexpectedly, holding this tile with a fortress, added later, plus regular tech gifting and not asking for tribute resulted in a benign Mongol neighbor.

2100--Population 100k

2050--(V) settler --> settler

2000--(R) settler --> dip

1950--(C) settler --> settler...Literacy --> Republic

1850--Renew Peace w/ Mongs

The Mongs are a problem. Must check every turn and gift tech often. Try to keep attitude at least Receptive/Cordial. For the present, holding off on total giving until I have Republic, to encourage them into a more friendly gov't.

1800--Found Neapolis (N)at (15, 23)...warrior; (A) settler --> Lib

1750--Found Pompeii (POM)at (12,26)...warrior. This will enforce the warrior's presence at the bottleneck, if needed, through asking them to leave.

1700--(R) dip --> settler. Send the dip exploring to the East.

1650--Republic --> Map. Gift all tech to Mongs and get Bronze Working.

Even at Worshipful they are not interested in an alliance. . After the dump, science drops to 6.

1400--(V) settler --> Temple

1350--Map -->Myst...(C) build order changed to boat...(R) b/o changed and dip finished

1250--(C) boat--> settler...Boat picks up (R) dip and heads East...Barb Archer bribed

1150--Chin city of Shanghi found by exploring dip; give tech, get map and ally, swap for Myst --> Phil...dip ends turn by making embassy. 2nd mine finished at (A).

1100--(N) settler --> Temple; (A) Lib --> Temple; Found Pisae (PIS) at ( 27,19) sci = 7

1050--naval dip meets the Aztecs!! --> Peace

1000--(POM) settler --> settler

975--Phil --> Curr --> Trade; dump tech to Mongs, get map and 100g!! Sci drops from 10 to 7!! Needed a big dump to get the Mongs to Worshipful for maps. After this, tech was gifted immediately to keep tech costs down. Gift tech to Aztecs, get map.

950--(A) Temple --> sett/camel (will switch when offered); (C) settler --> Temple. Moving workers, sci = 6.

900--(V) Temple --> sett/camel

875--(N)/(POM) Temple --> sett/camel...get 50g from Chin ally

850--swap Chin for Pottery

825--(C) Temple --> sett/camel,,,get 50g from Chin ally...
Trade -->Med

800--change all settler b/o to camels...get 25g from Chin ally and 25g again in 775.

750--Navy finds Vikings, get maps; rehome one of (V) settlers to (A) so (V) has more food to grow. (PIS) Temple --> settler

650--get 50g from Chin ally...somewhere in here bribed a Barb Horse.

625--Meet the Zulu's, get maps, decline offer of Math for now...Medicine --> Mason

By now, much road, irrigation, mining has been accomplished. (POM) to (V) road in place along with most of the irrigation around (A). All seven cities have Temples.

600--swap with Chin ally for Masonry --> math

575--swap with Chin ally for Construction (for Aquaducts); swap with Zulu for Mathematics --> Sea (being researched by Chin)...Also swap for Astronomy to get it before/in case the Zulu decide to start Cope's and hold back on it. This brings science to 23 turns.

550--Complete Hanging Gardens in (A) w/ camels from ( A, R, V, N). Revolt!!

525--The Great and Hopeful Roman Republic comes into being. Set Lux to 20%, disband 4 warriors; now sci = 13, pop = 370k. Celebrations set to begin in four (soon 5) cities.

500--Meet the English, get map.

450--Swap with Mongs for The Wheel and the Chin ally for Seafaring --> Bank. 56g Hides(d) (C-A); 48g Salt(d) (A-R). Lux reset to zero awaiting Shake's.

(A) at size 6, four cities size 4. POP = 670k...this w/o colosseums thanks to the Gardens.

400--Raise tax slider to 60% for $ to buy Market and Duct.

300--(A) Marketplace --> Aquaduct; Zulu announce they have learned Banking

275--80g Cloth(d) (POM-A); swap with Zulu for Bank --> Engineering (discovered overnight) --> Sanitation...Aztec build the Pyramids.

250--48g Hides(d) (R-A); (A) Aquaduct -->Shakes'

225--(A) builds Shakespeare's Theatre w/ camels from @ of top six cities.

(A) will Celebrate at 10% Lux. POP =810k; 23 techs @ 8 turns.

175--(A) Harbor --> Bank/Sewer (when available); Vikings announce they have Iron Working

125--swap w/ Vikings for Iron Working hoping to get Bridge next

75--72g Hides(d) (PIS - A), frees up blocked supply; Sanitation --> Bridge

50--(A) Sewer --> Colossus; 96g Beads(d) (POM - A); rehome (C) boat to (A) and (A) settler to (R). Lux to 40% Celebrate all to helpers to five. Gift Sanitation to all and get maps

1ad--Complete Colossus in (A) with camels from ( 2R, V, C)

Part Two follows

[Bloody Monk]

1335 AC log, 2

The AD years

20--150g Cloth(d) (N - A)

40--Bridge Building --> University

60--(A) Bank --> camel

80--(N) boat...loads settler and (C) beads camel and heads East toward the rivers North of Aztlan.

120-- University --> Theory

160-- Aztec build Great Library...they will feed off all the gifts to the Mongs

180--The previously bribed Barb Horse is sent packing by the English. This guy hung around a long time but could never get in a position to bag a King Barb. (A) size 23

200--256g Beads(d) (C - Tenochitlan) First Offshore Trade!! Swap Zulu for Horseback Riding... going for Poly, Mono, Mike's Chapel. Copernicus Observatory is completed in (A) with camels from (2V, A, R, POM, PIS)
Theory of Gravity --> Poly

240--The University of (A) is founded

260--Load (A) boat with (R) settler and Dye camel and follow previous sett to Aztlan

280--Polytheism --> Chem

320--128g Beads(d) (PIS - A)...(A) size 24 POP =3.85m..
Chemistry --> Eco

360--264g Dye(d) ( R - Tlatco) Economics --> Mono...Chin build King Richard

380--Found Ravanna (RAV)at (41,23) at nice 3-special coastal site. Zulu build Marco Polo, Chin the Great Wall, and Chin announce Navigation

400--168g Dye(d) ( V - Karakorum); (RAV) Harbor...Monotheism --> Invention

420--534g Gold(D) ( A - Karak) route = 10t (no road); Fort Pompeii completed on the swamp tile guarding (POM)..
Invention --> Demo

440--Road bonus!! Karak route now = 15!! Issac Newton College completed with camels from ( 3C, 2Pom, R, V, N)

460--222g Wine(d) ( A - Karak)...Democracy --> Gun Powder

480-- Found Hispalis (H)at (46,26); The (A) Stock Exchange opens for business.

So much effort went towards other objectives that founding the colonies was overly delayed. Founding them ealier, they could have grown faster and contributed more.

500--Complete Michealangelo's Chapel in (C) with camels from
( 2N, 2R, C,V, Pis). Gift tech all around and get new maps...
Gun Powder --> Explosives

I built the Chapel because I planned on many extra parts cities. This allows a new city w/o needing an immediate Temple; and, it will allow the core cities to grow without a colosseum after the Gardens expire. At 100 shields, a colosseum is equal in cost to
two camels, about half-price with nine cities.

The downside is that a colosseum handles a fourth unhappy with Electronics which is on the tech path. To get a fourth covered with Mike's, an off-path tech, Theology, must be learned, AND, Communism must be avoided. So, getting Mike's Chapel means
learning and carrying the cost of three extra techs (Poly, Mono, Theo) plus, possibly, learning/swapping for Horse and Fuedalism earlier than necessary. Any time you learn a tech early you entail extra carrying costs for that next tech.

Only because I planned on building double the usual number of cities, this WOW was marginally helpful. And I really believe it's a thin margin. For the heavy 3 extra tech cost, camels "might have" been delivered getting the gold for colosseums + beakers that would have sped the research. I don't think this wonder would pay off with only 9-10 cities.

520--Revolt!! --> Roman Democracy Established

540--252g Coal(d) ( A - Karak); 165g Wine(d) ( N - Tlat'co); 129g(d) ( V - A); Send a settler to join (H); (C) Harbor; Swap Chin for Navigation; Gifts, map to placate Viking.
Bribe Aztec camel, 175g (H)coal...Explosives --> Physics

580--(R)/(V) make Engineers. Physics --> Mag

600--(N) Library

620--145g(d) ( N - A) dim (V) arrows to open Coal slot again. Magnetism --> Steam

640--104g Salt(x-d) ( A - Karak); 3 +18 routes (A); (RAV) Temple; (N) University

660--settler joins (H) --> size 3; Steam --> RR; (Pis) Galleon

680--(R)/(Pom) build Harbors...Bribe Barb Musket...begin Celebration, 20% Lux POP = 4.14m

700--(H) Temple Railroad --> Metal

720-- give all RR, maps...Complete Leonardo's Shop in (V) with camels from (2V, 2A, N, C, Pom, Pis) Upgrades 3 units, 3 settlers, 4boats (one a useless trireme)

This may be the place I lost the chance to land early. The units are unimportant; the settlers are slated to become parts cities, and with Mike's, could have been laid down sooner; only the navy is important, but, trading 8 camels for four boats was a bad deal.

740--174g Coal(d) ( A - Karak...134g Copper(d) ( R - Tenoch) Metallurgy --> Indu

760--(V) Library....Industrialization --> Corp

780--95g Dye(d) ( Pom-Nanking)...The Corporation --> Elect'y

800--With a partial Rail in place, found Station at (18,20) to get rail bonus. Routes in (A) go from 18 to 24!! One turn advances now possible!! (R) Library; 266g Copper(d) (Rav - A); 444g Spice (d) (H - A)--Mong routes now hold until Flight. Adjust slider to up gold, and have little carryover of beakers with this advance, preparing for Darwin's next turn.
Electricity --> Electronics

820--Complete Darwin's Voyage in (V) with freights from (2C, 2A, R, N, V, Pis)
Electronics --> Steel --> Refine

840--(C)/(Pom) Libraries; University of (R); (N)/(Pis)/ (H) Engineers; 212g Dye(d)(H - Samarkand) Refining --> Atom

860--180g Dye(d) (Pis - Tenoch); (A)/(V) start Factory/SuperHWAY ( change when available)
Atom --> Combustion

880--(Pom)/(C)/(R) make Engineers...send Engineer to Aztlan to make roads for them.
Combustion --> Auto

900--Automobile --> Mass P

920--Superhighways in (A)/(V)/(R)...Pompous founded at (9, 23)...568g Wool(d) ( A - Tenoch); 330g Gold(d) ( V - Tenoch); 127g Wine(d) (Pom- Canton)
swap with Aztec for War Code, get maps...Mass Production --> Fued

940--(A): 3 routes now +35...Fuedalism --> Chiv

960--Mass Transit in (A)...(N) Superhighway...Chivalry --> N Fiss

980--(Pom) Superhighway...450g Gold(d) ( N - Tenoch); 138g Gems(d) (Pis - H)
Nuc-u-lear Fission --> Lead

1000--(Pis) Superhighway...764g Spice(d) ( H - A) ...
Leadership --> Theology

1020--(H) Superhighway...set (C) for WOW to receive Wonder Bread from (A) and hard rush food freight in (A)...mine grass in (Pom) trees, and wheat at (H) silk...255g Cloth(d) ( Rav - V); 1020g Wool(d) (A -Tenoch); 432g Gold(d) (V - Tenoch); 540g Gold(d)
( R - Tenoch); 74g Salt(xd) ( C - Tlat'co)***Total gold = 2321 this turn***
Theology --> Nuc-u-lear Power --> Conscription

1040--Wonder Bread to (C), switch to Superhighway...swap with Mongs for Conscription switch research to and discover Tactics --> Mac T

1060--1032g Wool(d) ( A - Tenoch); 656g Gold(d) ( V - Tenoch); 366g Wool(d) ( R - Tenoch) Machine Tools --> Laser --> Mini

1080--mine grass for hidden Pheasant in prep for new city Aztec3...42g Salt(xd) (Pis - N),opening a supply slot for each. Miniaturization --> Computers

1100--Found Aztec3 at (42,28), extra Engineer rejoins (H) now size7. (Rav) Superhighway...1032g Wool(d) ( A - Tenoch); 352g Silver(d) (N - Tlat'co); 438g Wool(d) ( V - Tenoch); 162g Wine(d) (H - Pom), unblocks both; 52g Salt (Pom - V) unblocks (V)
Computers --> Flight --> Radio ***Total gold = 2036***

With the discovery of Flight, the big paydays are over; and, the +35 routes dropped to +27. A research lab will get science to 1368 SSC, 1898 toal, but delivery pay offs will now be smaller making 2 tech turns much harder.

1120--(A) Research Lab...Found Ant Farm at (13,15)...244g Dye(d) ( R - Tenoch);
292g Wool(d) ( V - Tenoch)...Radio --> Ad Flt

1140--Found EastPort at ( 33,23)...235g Gems(d) (Pis - H); 222g Oil(d) ( C - A);
Advanced Flight --> Mob War

1160--Found SouthPort at (28,26)...(R) Research Lab...(V) University...611g Spice(d) (H - A); 240g Wool(d) ( R - Tenoch). Mobile Warfare --> Rocketry

1180--Found WestPort at (6,16) and FishParts at (28,16)...(N) R.Lab, University of Pom, Library of Pis...548g Wool(d) ( A - Tenoch); 94g Salt(xd) (Pis - Tenoch)
Rocketry --> Space

1200--Found WhaleParts at (32,18)...822g Gold(d) (A - Tenoch); 86g Silver(d) (Pom - R); 86g Cloth (C -A) opens Wool..
Space Flight --> Plastics

1220--548g Wool(d) ( A - Tenoch); 240g Wool(d) ( R - Tenoch); 288g Wool(d) (V -Tenoch); 235g Gems(d) (Pis - H); 204g Gold(xd) (H -A); 84g Cloth(xd) (C-A)
Complete Apollo Program in Pompous. Rush freights for parts.
Plastics --> Fundamentalism --> Super C

1240--548g Wool(d) ( A - Tenoch); 348g Spice(d) ( V - Teoti'can); 611g Spice(d) ( H - A); sell 9 Superhighways, 1 Sewer...13 Structurals
Super Conductor --> Fusion

1260--548g Wool(d) (A -Tenoch)...sell white goods...2 Structurals. 1 Module

1280--rush freights

1300--6 Components, 2 Modules...Fusion Power --> Robotics... Launch = 1335,
as the turn ends...FYI: 404g left over

In the end, the gamble failed. There was nothing left, the ship didn't fly any sooner.
Those 10 extra Engineers that became cities or add-in's could have been banked as
food freights....Blah, Blah, Blah...Didn't get it done, is all.

1320--build military units

1321--more units; start some airports for vet Stealth later...Robotics --> Stealth

1323--more units...Stealth --> Amphib War

1324--Revolt to Fundy

1326--Demand Tribute from Mongs --> War... Take Karakorum, 718g; Samarkand,
205g, Mong threat ended!! Chin see the Light and cough up all their 350g, hehe

1327--Viking Chariot sneak attacks my tank (and dies)

1334--Demand Tribute from Aztecs --> War...Take all Aztec Cities, gold, and WOW

1335 Alpha Centauri ( 64%, 496 score, Caesar the Clever)

Monk