Nomads and NONE settlers

[samson]

Originally posted by Straybow
I think somebody else mentioned that in the Paul's Deity OCC Competitions, after a kick-ass early date achieved by using the 2nd Settler to grow and finding a Nomad later.

Thing is, it only seems to apply to that original "spare" Settler.

Not in my experience. In SP, as long as you keep using up the nomads, founding cities or adding to them, you can find another on appropriate terrain. Once you decide to keep one, they stop coming. Apparently it's different on MP though.

[Scouse Gits]

I once thought that it was impossible to obtain another NON with one active on the same continent. This is clearly not the case. However, the chances of finding another one seem to increase further away from the capital.

-----------------

SG(2)

[ramses II.]

As I mentioned, I sometimes found upt to ten of them - but I always use them to build cities At no time I have more than 3-4 active NONE settlers.
As SG(2) said, the possibility to find one increases if you're far away from your capital.

[Straybow]

With OCC you can't use them to build cities, and a few players who used the original "spare" to grow found Nomads more frequently. I think I never got a Nomad in the competition games. I only experimented with growing the citing a 2 or 3 times, and I did get a Nomad once in that situation except it wasn't close enough to opponents to be NON (just my luck ).

Of course, you realize that the Deity OCC Competitions and most other OCC games I've played were all standard random small maps w/7 civs. Not too much room for distant huts, and the AI often sweeps the Arctic or Antarctic (whichever farther) strip before the player can get there.

For games on larger maps I've had 3-4 NONs hauled back to my home continent(s) for free tile work. I usually find more late game Adv Tribes than Nomads.

[rah]

Originally posted by Straybow
and I did get a Nomad once in that situation except it wasn't close enough to opponents to be NON (just my luck ).

I never gotten a nomad that wasn't a NON. Hmmmmm.

[samson]

Me neither. And I know I've gotten nomads from huts much closer to my cities than to any other civ.

[rah]

I know that this is the general experience, but I do remember a few exceptions being claimed by people in the past. I wonder if it was a MAC thing

[DrFell]

Yup, mine all NONEs too. Could it be that you mixed up a settler you'd built with one you found in a hut perhaps Straybow?

[atawa]

Originally posted by Straybow
"…in each case other players had allready build their cap." It would not be surprising that MP would have rules for specific situations unique to MP games. As you said, having a hut become you capital is a mixed blessing because the location usually sucks.

In 2x2x king all tribes are a blessing

[debeest]

I don't know much about huts, but when someone presented some outrageous test results showing 30% nomads when they had no nomads, I shifted to building two cities ASAP, and my nomad percentage skyrocketed. SP. I virtually never get a nomad or city when I have a nomad, and I get lots when I don't have one.

I also get plenty of nomads and cities in all terrains; I wouldn't say the frequency varies by terrain at all.

[rah]

Hmmm, you needed to see the result of a survey before you started building two cities?

RAH

[Straybow]

"I never gotten a nomad that wasn't a NON. Hmmmmm."

Well, I dunno. I no longer have copies of my logs, Paul's OCC page doesn't have complete logs, and the OCC threads aren't fully archived (only pg 1). It's just my recollection after almost 2 years… maybe I'm conflating 2 events. We required reload/re-tip in the case of Adv Tribe, so it wasn't a disbanded freebee…

[Straybow]

"Hmmm, you needed to see the result of a survey before you started building two cities?"

I like having the free Settler doing scut-work, and there's little to do early on. It's a psychological thing, holding on even knowing the Settler is better invested in a new city or growing the capital.

[debeest]

Originally posted by rah
Hmmm, you needed to see the result of a survey before you started building two cities?

RAH

Yeah, well, um....

SP doesn't sharpen one's skills as fast as MP.

Nowadays, even ignoring the effect on nomad production, I recognize that it's dramatically more powerful to build the second NON settler into a city ASAP. But I think there are still lots of people, including some reasonably good players, who value the NON settler's free support and free food and immediate hut-hunting so highly that they'll keep it around for a while (sometimes even the whole game), rather than building the second city right away. I think people weigh NON units far too heavily, as I've said before, but in my younger days I let them lead me astray....

[rah]

Yes, there is some truth there. In SP, it really isn't important. No matter what you do, the AI really doesn't have a chance. And yes in MP, you have to get that second city down quickly or you fall behind. For us, if you don't have at least 4 cities by 3000, you're behind. Also the extra beaker you can get from the second city can save a few turns heading to Monarchy or Republic. Getting there even as few as 4 turns before someone else is a considerable advantage on the expansion curve.

On non units in general, I also agree. I used to treasure non-units, but now the only time I really think they help is it you can get a couple before placing your cap. But after that, they don't quite excite me as much as they used to in SP.