Starting Wars

[Mr. President]

Having been playing Alpha Centauri for too long, I'm a little out of touch with this technique in Civ2. In SMAC you can usually start a war by demanding tribute and demanding withdrawal several times. That doesn't seem to work with the Civ2 AI. I'm in a Democracy before the United Nations. Any advice?

[Smash]

Use an oedo year and throw yourself into Anarchy.Attack,demand, what have you.Next turn you are back online.At least until the Senate comes in again.Just repeat then.

Or use the Statue in the same way.

[War4ever]

yes the senate will often get in the way of representative gov'ts......

however, if a civ has broken a treaty with you, sneak attacked etc....or just plain been too careless, the hawk party will intervene and allow "continued peacekeeping" against Blah blah blah

[debeest]

Send settlers into their territory. Build a city there and leave it empty, if necessary.

Block their vital roads and railroads with caravans.

Repeatedly station your troops in their territory; even if you withdraw every time it's demanded, sometimes they'll get annoyed.

If you're willing to spend a turn in anarchy, follow Smash's advice and do anything you want to them, so long as you do it the turn before an Oedo year or you have SoL.

Whatever you do, you'll soon have them crawling back to you for peace, and you won't be able to say no, as long as you're in democracy sans UN. I can't tell you how often I've maneuvered myself into a position to wipe out an entire civ in one turn, but after I capture one city, an emissary from the next city I approach nips the whole thing in the bud. I've learned one very useful trick: once you get to make war, if you're going to capture cities by killing off the defenders, first beat a whole bunch of cities down to zero defenders without capturing them. THEN capture them all. That way you might get to avoid meeting an emissary.

[Scouse Gits]

Change to a decent form of government and beat the living bejasus out of them ...

Prelate SG[1]

[Traianvs]

oh god fundamentalism is great

btw why'd you want to wage war with a democracy! your people will get unhappy! if you're going for some campaigns just get fundamentalism or communism if you haven't got fundamentalism yet

[rah]

Originally posted by Trajanus
oh god fundamentalism is great

btw why'd you want to wage war with a democracy! your people will get unhappy! if you're going for some campaigns just get fundamentalism or communism if you haven't got fundamentalism yet

Being at war had no effect on Happiness in CIV II.
It's all based on how many units you have outside of your cites (per city) whether you're at war or not. Once you've built up your cities with improvements, you'd be surprised at how many units each city can support in the field without revolting.
With a little care, fighting a war in Democracy isn't a problem, "even with your annoying senate." Having SOL offers considerably more flexability for momentarily dropping out if the Senate is giving you problems.

RAH

[TCO]

Just go fundy...

[Bloody Monk]

This is anecdotal; I have not tested this. It is my impression that the state of your reputation has an effect on how aggressive your Senate will let you be toward an AI. If my reputation is atrocious the Senate never let's me fight; if spotless or excellent I can get my way, usually, if only for a turn.

Others may have a more precise understanding and I hope they way-in here.

If reputation matters, then try to find another AI already at war with your target. If you visit them first they will ask you to join them in war against the evil whatevers. If you agree, you will be at war but your rep will not take as big a hit. You will also get an ally which might be useful. For example, you don't want to give away some key techs to get them up to enthusiastic so that they will exchange maps...but you need the intelligence to plan an invasion. You can wander around your ally's territory at will. Slower but effective.

[Gatekeeper]

Whatever you do, don't the an AI civilization get the United Nations, particularly if they have a "vendetta" against you and you're not the top civ on the map. It will make for along, drawn-out war with no end.

Gatekeeper

[Scouse Gits]

Assuming a continent all to yourself, it is very easy to perpetuate a war in Democracy. The AI emissary cannot speak to ships, so a tight naval patrol around the home shores stops intruders talking to the Senate. Home all boats to the city with Shake's to solve unhappiness caused by units at sea.

If you know where the enemy continent is situated blockade their ports, and periodically blast all units away. In the meantime you carry on building up your empire or the spaceship …


------------------------

SG(2)

[debeest]

Those are both useful insights, SG2. But the point of a war, I think, is to capture enemy cities, and it's hard to do that without encountering an emissary pretty soon.

[Scouse Gits]

Sure...you can fight to contain an enemy but you are not gaining territory.

If you are a rich democracy paying double bribe price for a little liberation is always helpful, especially if the civ in question is poor. This can be arranged - if prior to forming a representative goverment you are regularly receiving tribute or best of all - large lump sums to sign cease fire agreements

I know bribery is not all out war - but if you need real estate...

--------------

SG(2)

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by debeest
Those are both useful insights, SG2. But the point of a war, I think, is to capture enemy cities, and it's hard to do that without encountering an emissary pretty soon.

Am I missing something here?
If you wish to wage a war of expansion - change to a war footing and that means changing to a non-representative government.
If you wish to prevent warlike neighbours from being a pain - you can follow {2}'s adviceand contain them - or simply go fundy and destroy them - your choice.
However, it seems almost a contradiction in terms to wish to fight a war of expansion while maintaining a representative government - it is certainly possible, but just how representative is your government if vast swathes of 'your' people are conquered serfs?

SG[1]

[ramses II.]

You dont need to change government. There are some possibilities to tickle your enemies:
Build a city just on a city radius of one of the AI cities.
Ask them several times to get of your land, even if they have none on your land.
Ask another civ for war against the concerning AI civ.
Subvert their cities. Put your units on their land. Remove them, if they ask you, do it again the next turn.
Your reputation will get no spots, you can stay in demo, and war continues.