The first wonder to build

[War4ever]

HG all the way.......but i ususally let my opponents build it, this guarrantees my learning to play without this crutch.

its by far the best early wonder.....and coupled with pyramids is the best 400 shields that can be put to use in the game...

the builder of HG can expand expoenentially, while others have to tone down or escort or rush build temples to keep pace...

against an icser its imparative to prevent them from landing this wonder

[Scouse Gits]

Sorry guys, but for me the colossus is a grossly overrated Wonder - granted its pretty essential for OCC, but I would gladly miss out on it in favour of growing my capital faster by force feeding it with Settlers and Food caravans (What IS a 'representative government'?) - I truly feel that the benefits are marginal - but I'm not a great SSC champion - I prefer to turn off science and further technology with trade once I have my Crooks and Clads - any gains the AI may make are momentary - I have an Embassy and a Diplomatic Corps - 30 shields a tech is pretty cheap.
Thanks, geofelt, for putting it in a nutshell.

SG[1]

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Sorry guys, but for me the colossus is a grossly overrated Wonder - granted its pretty essential for OCC, but I would gladly miss out on it in favour of growing my capital faster by force feeding it with Settlers and Food caravans (What IS a 'representative government'?)

Therein lies the difference in our games... I like Rep/Demo for the WLTPD's... with HG and Colossus in the same city, happiness is easier to come by. Extra trade arrows = more luxuries = easier to keep WLTPD going, of course. And then those food caravans aren't needed.

Naturally this approach keeps me from being too militaristic until the mid- or late- stages of the game. But if I do decide on conquest, the tech advantage from the Colossus-SSC pays off.

You mentioned OCC, SG[1]. Would the Colossus be more important to you if you were planning on going the spaceship route from the start, as opposed to conquest?

STYOM

[TCO]

Wimpy builder. I like the pyramids for the doubling of growth rate. HG for help with unhappiness. And STWA for ripping tits.

[Xin Yu]

Natually, Pyramids is the first to build when using my size 5 strategy.

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
That said, the benefits you mention sound good - but would you take LH at the expense of the Colossus and/or HG?

Not at the expense of HG. Colossus, hm... Don't know... In the game I mentioned in my post above, I think I got all three thanks to getting the LH first, setting up trade routes across the seas and then rushbuying the other two (caravans).

Carolus

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Carolus Rex


Not at the expense of HG. Colossus, hm... Don't know... In the game I mentioned in my post above, I think I got all three thanks to getting the LH first, setting up trade routes across the seas and then rushbuying the other two (caravans).

Carolus

I'll have to try that. In my games things never go that well... by the time I finish the first wonder, most of the AIs are building one of their own. I'd have to get Trade & Mapmaking, plus Triremes built pretty fast, in order to reach AI cities to trade with and then be able to rush HG/Colossus...

It'd be a close one, most times! You say you knew where the AI was due to a second attempt? Without that knowledge, perhaps MPE might be a better option than LH, if you want to trade early with the AI?

STYOM

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by Xin Yu
Natually, Pyramids is the first to build when using my size 5 strategy.

I have used the 5 strategy many times but never started with the Pyramids as I always "b" settlers into the cities to reach size 5.

Xin - sometime last year you were explaining a version of the two continent strategy, having the Colossus city trading with the celebrating Gardens city on a different landmass. Was the capital the city with the Colossus?

----------------

SG(2)

[ramses II.]

I play deity (SP, map 125x80, raging, other parameters medium), trying to reach AC. I play deity since february 2002, after 2 years of playing chieftain.
It's one aspect of my strategy that I forsake most of the ancient wonders, some of the medival, but none of the modern wonders.
In nearly all my games I manage to build MPE, (sometimes GL), Mike's, Bachs, Leo's, Magellan's, Adam After building SoL I normally switch to Fundi, Smith's, SoL, Hoover Dam, UN and so on.


1) to make some ca$h to improve the infrastructure
2) for easy expansion (rush building settlers)
3) to discover the rest of the world with some rush-built diplos and caravels (I normally have 6-7 caravels, each of them with 3 diplos).
4) to rush build WoW, if the needed tech is available.

With Mike's and Bach's and -later- Cure for Cancer (yes, I like this "WLTP"-forcing wonder) unhappiness is no problem, when I switch back to demo. In my last game there was a global warming, but my cities still grew.

My research program: 80% taxes, 20% science, tons of kleptomaniacs (ahemm, diplos and spies). Tech theft will cause no war in Fundi.

At this state of the game I've alway 3-4 well developped cities (temple, aqueduct, colosseum, city walls, market place, harbor) building wonders. I try to avoid long wars , for they are costly, but if an AI insists in being conquered, I'll do them the favour. Each sneak attack costs a city ...
I normally finish my games with about 160-180 million people, the complete space ship and a score of about 350 %. I know that I will never appear in any Hall of Fame. Playing civ - it's just fun for me.

But now back to my thread. The question was, which wonder would you build if the HG, the Pyras and the Colossus are no more available? I often take MPE or the GL.

[Straybow]

LH or MPE. Oracle dies too early and GL can give you stuff you don't want, raising beaker costs and obsoleting Warriors (hurts rushing).

[ramses II.]

I've heard of that naval strategy. Building the LH, later Magellan's, ruling the seas and shores by vet ironclads (and crusaders)... isn't that your strategy, Scouse Gits?

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
I'll have to try that. In my games things never go that well...

Not in my games either!

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man

by the time I finish the first wonder, most of the AIs are building one of their own.

True, but the AI has a crush on the Pyramids and the GL. I don't care what GP says, but the Pyramids are for people who haven't grasped "the fundamentals"... The AI can have those two, no problem! I see some value of the GL in alliance MP games, where it puts a restriction on tech trade, but in SP I gladly leave it (and the Pyramids) to the AI.

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man

I'd have to get Trade & Mapmaking, plus Triremes built pretty fast, in order to reach AI cities to trade with and then be able to rush HG/Colossus...

It'd be a close one, most times! You say you knew where the AI was due to a second attempt? Without that knowledge, perhaps MPE might be a better option than LH, if you want to trade early with the AI?

Yes, I had map knowledge so it wasn't a fair game... I agree with you, MPE is very good. But getting both LH and MPE is viable, is it not? Good combo for early trade in ocean worlds!

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

Ok, just bumped the thread (Come! Laugh at an SG!).

I have a log starting at page 7.

LH built in capitol 1450 BC.
HG built in capitol 1000 BC.
Colossus built in capitol 775 BC.

But, yes, second attempt.

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

But, of course, check arii's 1208 AD landing for a master's strategy!

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

Speaking of the value of MPE... Seems to have been vital in arii's game!

Carolus