The ultimate weapon

[La Fayette]

Everybody knows that I am fond of vet spies. Here is the best reason why:
If you are able to build nuclear missiles (very powerful, but useless if your enemy has SDI defence), your vet spies also are able to plant nuclear devices even in cities protected by SDI.
This is by far the cheapest and most powerful weapon in civ2, since the rate of success is about 2/3 (with vet spies): if you attack with 15 spies, you will likeky lose 5 on the average and 'nuke' 10 cities!

Therefore, the cost is about 15 shields/city (about 1 vet spy lost for 2 cities 'nuked').
Let me remind you of the results (the same as those of a nuclear missile): all units inside and around the city destroyed, population halved and a few skulls appearing around the city.
It is of course highly advisable to have some fast moving units (MechInf or tanks or Explorers,...) ready to take the cities after you have 'nuked' them. With somewhat careful planning, you can even destroy a whole civ in 1 turn and get rid of the partisans (all of them suddenly disappear when you take the last city ).

AFAIK there is no defence against this weapon, which is so cheap and so powerful that I call it 'the ultimate weapon' in civ2

[Smash]

You can protect your cities by surrounding them but that is great expense.They are certainly the most versatile unit.

Does stationing spys help prevent nuclear devices?

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Smash
Does stationing spys help prevent nuclear devices?

I haven't tested that, because it never occured to me, playing SP.
I agree that it should be tested, since surrounding the city is not a strong defence (so easy to destroy or bribe one unit and find your way in).

[TCO]

Airbased hills and mined city squares are the best weapons. Just ask Rah.

[Scouse Gits]

La Fayette, do you not lose half of your successful spies making the cost 30 shields per city destroyed?

SG[1]

[La Fayette]

In my test, I attacked 20 cities and lost 10 vet spies. I grant you this is a small sample, but I remember very sadly the hundreds of spies that I killed when doing research about bribing and sabotaging .
I wouldn't be surprised if the losses were up to 100 for 100 cities nuked, as you suggest, but it would break my heart to test that .
Anyone willing?

[La Fayette]

Perhaps La Fayette's vet spies are even more efficient than other vet spies, since they know that La Fayette loves them .

[rah]

Originally posted by GP
Airbased hills and mined city squares are the best weapons. Just ask Rah.

Funny Man.

The only defense against spies is
1. not railroading every square.
2. not haveing a city within 3 movement points of water.
3. having all railroads have well defended at choke points with fortresses and multiple units. Within 3 squares of cityes with SDIs
4. having 2x movement terrain around your city.
5. Using sentry posts.
6. patrols, (easiest with planes)
7. Having ready response "heavy hitter" units to attack when the spys are moving with vet alpine units for protection.
8. The solid line of troops defense (never really practical since it's usually easy to bust a hole in it)

Unfortunately these conditions can not be met with all of your cities.

I have never used a suitcase nuke against the AI. It makes the game way to easy. (of course I don't bribe AI cities either) Gotta handicap the AI somehow

RAH

[War4ever]

agree with rah on his points in SP...... having nuked people in mp, i always get the lecture...."no nukes, to easy to win"

fair enough arguement......but spies are far more lethal...especially the vets.....
poisoning water, theft, destruction, crude nuke...whatever.....

i personally think if your going to limit nukes in a game then the spy plant(nuke) should be eliminated as well

[La Fayette]

rah & War4ever
I agree with you: nukes are ugly and spies are so powerful that both might be forbidden in order to increase the challenge.

(La Fayette, sorry because someone asked him to play a game without his beloved vet spies)

Don't forget though that there are people still struggling to win at deity level. I think it's fair to give them good advice and strong weapons. This is a strategy forum, after all .

[War4ever]

La Fayette...... i have no problems dropping a couple of nukes on the ai...just to hear their diplomats message about nuke weapons.......

as a rule i don't use them for conquest against the ai for the same reasons as Rah....but they are a great learning tool for novice players.

However i feel nukes are at their best against the ai when used upon an enemy fleet in the water....

i too don't bribe ai ciites....unless they bribe one of mine ...then i will bribe it back.....


my only concern for players who play SP mode and who have hopes of surviving in MP, don't rely on any of the tricks you learn against the computer..most of us are too savvy to fall for them in MP.....

SP mode teaches bad habits for MP IMO...that is the best advice i can give junior players

[TCO]

Back in the Addicted days, I remember hearling all the tree-hugger builder types saying that they thought nukes would HAVE to be outlawed for MP.

I didn't like that...wanted to see the carnage. I thought city buying out to be eliminated but nukes left in.

So how did it all work out? Are nukes allowed?

[La Fayette]

In fact I haven't been using any kind of nuke for quite a long time, but I was playing ww79 recently (some kind of friendly competition between XinYu, DrFell and myself) and the AI civs sent so many nuclear missiles at one another (and also at me ) that I finally decided to use my beloved vet spies (and destroyed the two remaining civs in 3 turms ).

In the MP games I play (PBEM), I haven't seen any nuke yet, but I think there is no general rule (matter of agreement between players when starting the game, just like caravan rehoming or tricky airbases and the like).

[War4ever]

well having nuked people myself in mp , there is no rule....but i like war (could you guess) and when others groan about them i quickly remind them about spies

[Scouse Gits]

War - I'm surprised that MP games ever get as far as nukes - or are these scenario starts??

SG[1]