Partisans

[Starlifter]

CityLevel = RoundDown[(CitySize+4)/8]

That is in definite keeping with my tables of results from a long time ago. Back then I did not consider gov't type, but I did notice the "cutoffs" at 4 and 12, which is why I quit testing at 13, since smaller AI cities were all I was normally encountering. It's nice to see you guys have drilled down to the real answers, as it always bugged me that I could not just look at a city and not know how many Partisans would emerge... I often overplanned my Partisan control efforts as a result, esp. until more of a "feel" developed.

Good job, Th & St!

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by Starlifter
I think this is Brian/Sid's logic: If you reach communism, but your civ does not have gunpowder, then why should your civ's captured cities produce Gunpowder partisans? How can your people become equipped and trained (assuming normal flow of research) to deploy a tach that your civ has no knowledge of yet?

I think it's hard to second guess the logic of Brian and Sid in this fashion. After all their tech tree allows the production of Ironclads when you have no knowledge about Iron Working

Nice work finding the link between Gunpowder and Communism for Partisans. Do you test your results in 2.42 or MGE.

----------------------

SG(2)

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by debeest
May I suggest a post that summarizes this (pretty much as you've already done) for a GL link?

I am sceptical about the GL+SGs combination. I think somebody else should care of links updating. The GL index could be divided into 2 posts, the general info would remain in the SGs 1st post, links would be moved to the new one...

Originally posted by starlifter
Good job, Th & St!

... & Sl! I would miss the gunpowder without your posts.

Originally posted by GP
Well...I appreciate your establishing the definitve relationship...but still feel vindicated in our earlier disagreement.

I agree with you. Usually you have the gunpowder when you reach commie.

Originally posted by starlifter
I am not familiar with the cases or examples of how/when using Cheat Mode affects gameplay (beyond the obvious direct effects). Is there a link to it? To my knowledge, a tech is a tech.... if you got it, it has its effect.... no matter if it was stolen, traded, researched, edited with Cheat Mode.

Some things trigger at oedo years or turn beginnings. For example I had a big problems when I investigated the amount of the gold plunder (it is related to the amount of defender's gold in the beginning of the turn). I think this is a reason why SGs feel sceptical with the cheat mode.
But I think the way how you obtain a game position (by cheat mode or not) is irrelevant. Otherwise - what would happen if you save and reload? I don't think the way of tech acquirement is stored in the .sav file.

Originally posted by SG(2)
Do you test your results in 2.42 or MGE.

i suppose you speak to starlifter...

[SlowThinker]

The result overview

I have run tests with attacker's Gue. I had to rebuild the formula, because the logic is lost:
In general attacker's Gue lowers the number of partisans. But in reverse it allows partisans to appear from cities of level 1 when defender has Gue only!

Please verify the formula.

---

shortcuts from rules.txt:
Communism=Cmn, Conscription=Csc, Guerrilla Warfare=Gue, Gunpowder=Gun

CityLevel = RoundDown[( CitySize+4)/8 ]

BNP: basic number of partisans
TypeMultiplier: a multiplier that affects the result

defender's techs	attacker has Gue	BNP	TypeMultiplier
Gue	no	(CityLevel -1)*2	2
Gue	yes	CityLevel	1
Cmn+Gun	irrelevant	CityLevel -1	1

CscModifier: Conscription modifier
defender has not Conscription: then CscModifier=0
defender has Conscription: then CscModifier=1

GovtModifier: Government modifier
GovtModifier=1/2*abs(govindexD-govindexA)
(abs...absolute value)

govindexD- defender's government index value
govindexA- attacker's government index value
Index values:
Anarchy=1,Desp=2, Mon=3, Com=4, Fund=5, Rep =6, Dem=7

The formula:
Partisans = BNP + (CscModifier + GovtModifier) * TypeMultiplier
(the result is rounded down)

 

---

Notes:
Partisans can pop up only on empty ground squares in "the working city radius" (squares that may be worked in the city window).
The max. number of partisans is 20 - i.e. only one partisan may pop up on one square.
If city was founded by attacker then no partisans pop up.
No effect: unhappy, content, happy people; wltxd, city improvements, killed defender/attacker, decrease of inhabitants by siege, type of terrain.

---

A simplified conclusion:
There are two situations when partisans arise: the defender has Guerilla Warfare or the defender has Gunpowder+Communism. Guerilla Warfare produces twice more partisans than the combination Gunpowder+Communism.
The effect of Guerilla Warfare and Gunpowder+Communism is not cumulated: only Guerilla Warfare applies.
Conscription adds 1 or 2 partisans.
Every point of "governments difference" raises the number of partisans by 50%.
The number of partisans depends on the city size: The smallest city that produces them has size 4. Next turning points are 12, 20, 28, 36 etc.
Guerilla Warfare is the only attacker's tech that affects the number of partisans.

Overview:

defender's techs / attacker's techs	gue	gue+csc	cmn+gun	cmn+gun+csc
number of partisans for citylevel1 citylevel2 citylevel3 citylevel4...	0 2 4 6 ...	2 4 6 8...	0 1 2 3...	1 2 3 4...
	gue/gue	gue+csc/gue
	1 2 3 4...	2 3 4 5...

[TCO]

Does RoundDown mean that 3.75 -> 3 or just that 3.5 -> 3. And what is the correct term for each concept?

[SlowThinker]

RoundDown means both, but only 3.5 will occur in the formula.

Originally posted by GP
And what is the correct term for each concept?

What concept?

[TCO]

On concept is to take the whole number minus what ever digital excess (so 3.0 to 3.999999 is equal to 3). Another is to round to nearest integer. But "round down" would mean to round all Int.5's to Int. "Round up" would mean round Int.5 to Int+1.

[TCO]

Oh...and you have a division by 8 in your city level thingie no? surely that means you can have other than Int and Int.5?

P.s. you never responded to my gibe about Eastern Europe...

[SlowThinker]

GP, don't you head to Deity? Your posts are always very short...

Oh...and you have a division by 8 in your city level thingie no?

Yes, I missed this. Anyway RoundDown is Trunc, i.e. RoundDown(3.99) = 3

P.s. you never responded to my gibe about Eastern Europe...

And I won't respond till you will post a link to that gibe. Sorry, I missed it.

[TCO]

It's not funny anymore... It was in the other partisan thread. I think you saw it and are being cruel by removing my chance for humor at your expense...

[SlowThinker]

GP, I didn't want to be bad to you. A humor at my expense is always welcomed. Try again.

[SlowThinker]

There was a mistake in the formula: missing CityLevel at GovtModifier. The formula is changed a little. I also edited the notes.

---

shortcuts from rules.txt:
Communism=Cmn, Conscription=Csc, Guerrilla Warfare=Gue, Gunpowder=Gun

CityLevel = RoundDown[( CitySize+4)/8 ]
CitySize is the size of the city before the capture.

BNP: basic number of partisans
TypeMultiplier: a multiplier that affects the result

defender's techs	attacker has Gue	BNP	TypeMultiplier
Gue	no	CityLevel -1	2
Gue	yes	CityLevel	1
Cmn+Gun	irrelevant	CityLevel -1	1

CscModifier: Conscription modifier

defender has Csc	CscModifier
yes	1
no	0

GovtModifier: Government modifier
GovtModifier=1/2*abs(govindexD-govindexA)
(abs...absolute value)

govindexD- defender's government index value
govindexA- attacker's government index value
Index values:
Anarchy=1,Desp=2, Mon=3, Com=4, Fund=5, Rep =6, Dem=7

The formula:
Partisans = (BNP + CscModifier + GovtModifier*CityLevel) * TypeMultiplier
(the result is rounded down)

---

Notes:
Partisans can pop up only on empty ground squares in "the working city radius" (squares that may be worked in the city window).
The max. number of partisans is 20 - i.e. only one partisan may pop up on one square.
If city was founded by attacker then no partisans pop up.
The Guerilla Warfare obtained by conquering the city counts, in other words it affects the number of partisans (partisans pop up after the attacker chooses a defender's tech).
No effect: unhappy, content, happy people; wltxd, city improvements, killed defender/attacker, decrease of inhabitants by siege, type of terrain.
The defensive value of a terrain affect where the emerging partisans are placed: first partisan to the best devensive terrain and so on. There is a special pattern of placing partisans if all terrain is the same: first square is north-east from the city, then clockwise around the city (this pattern is equal to the pattern of barbs coming from huts and to the pattern of cultivating squares around cities by AI).

---

A simplified conclusion:
There are two situations when partisans arise: the defender has Guerilla Warfare or the defender has Gunpowder+Communism. Guerilla Warfare produces twice more partisans than the combination Gunpowder+Communism.
The effect of Guerilla Warfare and Gunpowder+Communism is not cumulated: only Guerilla Warfare applies.
Conscription adds 1 or 2 partisans.
Every point of "governments difference" raises the number of partisans by 50%.
The number of partisans depends on the city size: The smallest city that produces them has size 4. Next turning points are 12, 20, 28, 36 etc.
Guerilla Warfare is the only attacker's tech that affects the number of partisans.

Overview (for equal governments):

defender's techs / attacker's techs	gue	gue+csc	cmn+gun	cmn+gun+csc
number of partisans for citylevel1 citylevel2 citylevel3 citylevel4...	0 2 4 6 ...	2 4 6 8...	0 1 2 3...	1 2 3 4...
	gue/gue	gue+csc/gue
	1 2 3 4...	2 3 4 5...

[TCO]

wrt the working city radius. Do you mean that if the square is unexplored it can't have a partisan...or can't be worked?

[SlowThinker]

I mean 20 squares around the city. But I may be wrong - I don't know if unexplored squares pop up partisans. Could you test it?

[TCO]

I don't have civ anymore. I just post in the on topic to get post counts. (I mean to contribute to the community...since that is the reason for driving off topicers out in to the on topic...)