OCC size 1 revisited

[samson]

Hi all.

EOL's size 1 game used Mixam's clever idea of a 0-meridian site working two trade specials
with only one citizen. While this clearly demonstrated the possibility of an AC landing
by a normal size 2 city, it left open the question of whether a random-map size 1 city
could actually win on deity level. I had to know.

In my attempt at a size 1 OCC game I used a random map set at deity, 7 civs, raging hoards.
This was not a scenario and I had no foreknowledge of the map.
After some wandering I found the site I wanted: a gold mountain with access to the ocean
and a nearby river. I thought about founding the city on the plains/river square
and working the gold. This would benefit from the automatic bridge of the city square,
but leave the gold mountain subject to pillaging. Instead I founded the city on the gold
and worked an ocean square for the extra trade. This gave me one less shield (2 instead of 3)
until I got Bridge building and could utilize the forest/river square I had mined.
My trade would be 8 arrows under Despotism and 11 under Republic until I got trade routes.

This is first game I have played in a while where the outcome was truly in doubt.
Here's the log:


V2.42, Deity, 7 civs, raging.
Playing as Chinese.

4000 Hut-horseman
3900 Hut-archer
3800 Hut-horseman
3750 Shanghai founded - Alphabet, Code of Laws, Masonry, 2 horse, 1 archer.
8 trade, 5 science, 1 shield (founded on gold, working ocean)
3700 Hut-50gold. Spanish-trade Masonry for Bronze working, Code of Laws for alliance.
3600 Hut-chariot.
3550 Writing, give to Spanish
3400 Hut-50gold.
3350 Hut-50gold, hut-50gold.
3300 Library. Literacy. Hut-50gold.
3250 French - give all techs, no alliance. Hut-barbarians, chariot killed.
3200 Hut-currency.
3100 Romans-give all techs, alliance (they have WC, did not take)
3050 Hut-50g.
3000 Babylonians - give all techs, alliance. (they have Pottery, did not take)
English - trade for Mapmaking (also have CB), share maps, alliance.
Mapmaking to all, share maps with all.
2950 Hut-Republic, give to all.
2900 Hut-chariot.
2850 REPUBLIC, trade 11, science 13, 5 turns.
2750 Trade, give to French - alliance, Trade to English for CB. Hut-Mathematics.
2700 Silk caravan. (beakers increased)
2650 Writing to English. Currency to French (beakers reduced).
2600 Gold caravan. CB to Spanish, Code of Laws to English.
2550 Share maps with all.
2500 Hut-50gold.
2450 English-25g.
2400 Mysticism. Silk to Madrid,24g,+2 trade. Hut-50g. Give Trade to all.
Mongols-give Mapmaking, CB, peace, share maps, no alliance (war with French).
2350 Hides caravan. E-25g, F-25g. Give Republic to Mongols.
2300 Hut-barbarians.
2250 Gold to Madrid, 24g, +2trade.
2200 Astronomy. Masonry to Mongols. Mysticism to Babylonians (beakers reduce, Aha!)
2150 Food Caravan. E-50g. (beakers increase)
2050 Hides to Madrid, 48go, +2trade. Trade Math to English for Construction.
Construction to Babylonians (beakers unchanged)
Construction, Math, and Mysticism to Romans (beakers reduce).
[The Babylonians are #4, Romans #3. I dropped from #1 to #0 this year
and the key civ dropped one slot also.] Construction to all others.
2000 Trade and Writing to Mongols for Horseriding and Wheel.
Horse and Wheel to Romans to reduce beakers! Hut-50gold. French-25gold.
1950 (beakers increased. E6,B5,R4,F3,M2,*1,S0) 2 techs to Babylonians, beakers reduce.
Spanish-25gold.
1900 Food Caravan. Banking, to Babs (beakers reduce)
1850 Math and Horse to Spanish, Math to Mongols, no alliance. F-50gold.
1750 S-25g, E-50g.
1700 Food Caravan.
1550 S-50g
1450 Food.
1400 Philosophy. University. (we are 'pathetic') Uni and Astro to Romans (beakers drop).
1250 Gifts: F-Monarchy, B-25,R-100
1200 Food. Give Philosophy to Babylonians ('weak', reduce).
1100 COPERNICUS. trade17, science40, 6 turns. S-50g
1050 F-50g
1000 Engineering (20th tech bumps beakers to 400) Philosophy to Romans for WC.
WC to English for Pottery, Philo and Engineering to Babs, reduce beakers. F-50g
War with Mongols.
975 Hut-50g. Pottery to F, WC to E and S.
950 Mysticism to E, Engineering to S. Hut-100g. Philo to French.
925 University.
875 Peace to Mongols, give WC.
850 S-50g.
800 Economics, to Romans (beakers drop).
775 (beakers up, 'weak', Economics to Babs, beakers drop). All techs to Mongols, alliance.
725 Wool caravan.
675 E-50g.
625 R-25,E-50.
600 Food. Iron working, to all.
575 S-50
550 Food. R-25,E-25,M-75
525 E-25,M-50
500 Food. M-25
475 Hut-Gravity.
450 R-50, E-50, M-25
425 Food.
375 Invention. Invent & Gravity to Romans (beaker drop). M-50.
350 Food. E-50.
325 S-50
300 Food. Chariot killed by barbarians. B-50
250 E-50, M-50
225 Food.
200 ISAAC NEWTON. 17trade, 84science. R-25g
175 Democracy, to Romans (beakers reduced). Demo to all.
125 DEMOCRACY. 17trade, 102science. R-25,E-100
100 Coal caravan. Invention to English for Seafaring. Seafaring to all. M-50.
75 R-25, S-50, E-50
50 Food.
25 R-25, M-50
1 AD Bridge Building, to Romans. Food caravan.
20 E-50
40 Food.
80 R-50, E-50.
100 share maps with all.
120 Navigation, to all. Bridge on forest/river square completed, now working.+2shields.
140 E-50
160 Food. S-25
200 Romans develop Medicine. E-50
240 Physics (beakers stay low, because Romans have Medicine). Physics to F,B. S-25,M-50
260 Food. E-50
300 Food.
320 F-25
360 Steam Engine, to Romans. B-25.
400 M-50
420 Food. F-25
460 E-75
480 Railroad. Food. Romans-trade Railroad for Medicine, give Physics, gift-100g. E-50
500 Coal to London, 48g,+4trade. Barbarian leader-150. Railroad to all.
520 Silk caravan. S-50, E-50
560 R-50,B-50,S-25,E-25,M-50
580 Food. Share maps with all.
600 Industrialization. ('weak' -give Industry to Babs, beakers drop 1 notch), give to all. F-50
620 Food. Steam Engine to Babs. S-25
640 Medicine to Babs. English develop Gunpowder. M-50
660 Gravity to Babs (beakers drop 2nd notch) R-50.
680 Food. S-50.
700 Corporation, to Babs. Food. Steam Engine to English for Gunpowder. Gunpowder to all.
720 Food
740 M-50
760 Oil.
820 Food. E-150, M-50
840 E-75, R-25
860 Chemistry, to Babs (reduce beakers). Food. E-50, M-50.
880 E-50.
900 Food.
920 Silk to London, 150g, +4trade. E-50
940 Food. S-25
960 Refining, to Babs. S-25, R-25, M-50
980 Factory. ('Pathetic' - time to gift the Romans: Refining & Chemistry.
1020 Oil to London, 75gold, +4trade. 23trade, 138science, 6 turns, 9 shields.
1040 Trade routes with London go up to +5, 26trade, 156science, 5 turns. S-25
1060 Explosives, to Romans.
1080 Give Explosives to Babs.
1100 B-25,E-125,M-50
1120 Power Plant, 12 shields. Gifts:E-75,M-Feudalism,B-25
1140 Feudalism to Babs, Romans. E-50.
1160 Magnetism, to Babs. Food. E-50. Steam Engine to Mongols.
1180 Trade Magnetism to Romans for Sanitation, Gift-100g. Sanit to French, Babs. M-50.
1200 Food.
1240 Food. R-50,M-50
1280 Combustion, to English for Metallurgy, gift-250gold. Metallurgy to Babs. Metal & Combustion
to Romans. Metallurgy to Mongols.
1300 Food. Combustion to Babs. E-50, S-25.
1320 S-25
1340 Food.
1380 S-25,M-50
1400 Electricity, to Babs and Romans. F-50. Food.
1420 S-50
1440 Food
1480 Food. B-25,R-25
1500 Electronics, to Babs and Romans. Food. E-125.
London now at size 12, trade routes+6.
1520 R-25, B-25,E-100
1530 Food.
1540 Romans build Darwin's Voyage - get Atomic Theory and Conscription.
Romans gift Conscription, give to all. Pay 100g to Mongols and several techs to save alliance.
Then get 75gold back from them as gift.
1550 Food. S-25,E-100,M-50
1560 E-75, M-50
1570 Steel, to Romans and Babs. E-50,M-25. Food. Still at 6 turns.
1590 S-25,E-100,M-25.
1600 Food. English develop Chivalry. E-50,M-25
1610 E-50
1620 E-50
1630 Automobile. Auto to English for Chivalry, gift 50.
Auto and Chiv to Romans for Atomic Theory, gift 150. Auto, Chiv, A.T. to Babs. Auto to all.
1640 Superhighways. Trade 43, London routes +9, Science 258, 4 turns, shields 12, 806 gold, 39 freights/caravans.
F-50, E-50, M-50
1660 Food.
1670 Mass Production, to R and B. E-150. Chivarlry to Mongols.
1680 Food. M-50
1690 Barb leader-150. E-50, M-50.
1700 Food. E-50.
1710 Leadership, to R & B. To French for Communism. Communism to Babs.
[No Computers-leading tech available, choose Communism because French had it. Babs have Polytheism]
1720 Food. Researching Tactics. E-100. Leadership to Mongols (get them back to Enthusiastic)
1730 R-100, E-50.
1740 R-75, E-50, M-50
1750 Food. Communism to Romans. E-50.
1752 Tactics, to Babs for Polytheism, to Romans. E-50,M-50, B-50.
1754 Food. Researching Machine Tools. R-50, F-25, S-50, E-50.
1758 Food. R-50, F-25, E-100. Chemistry to Mongols.
1760 R-25, F-25, E-50, M-50.
1762 Machine Tools, to R and B. Food. E-50.
1766 Food. English develop GenEng.
1768 B-50, E-100, M-50.
1770 Food. E-50.
1772 Flight, to Babs.
1774 Food. S-50, M-50
1776 Barb Leader-150. Power is 'inadequate', huge beaker cost increase, techs to French.
1778 Food. Power is 'weak', beakers drop. R-50, S-50.
1780 R-25, F-50, S-50, M-50
1782 Miniaturization, to R & B. Food. S-50
1784 Tactics to Mongols. S-50.
1786 Food.
1788 S-50, E-125.
1790 E-100, S-100
1792 Computers, to Babs. E-75, S-50
1794 Research Lab. Trade 43, Science 344, 4 turns. Romans develop Mobil Warfare. E-50
1796 E-50, S-50, M-75
1798 Food. M-50, E-50
1800 Radio, to Babs. Computers to Romans for MW Computers to French for GE. S-50, E-50
1802 Food. MW to Babs. Power is 'inadequate', Electricity to French. M-50
1804 M-25, B-25
1806 Food. B-25, M-25
1808 Nuclear Fission, to Babs. Computers to English. M-25
1810 Food. Barb leader-150.
1812 R-100, B-25, F-25, M-100.
1814 Food. R-100. Steel to French
1816 Advanced Flight. Food. MW to French, Mongols, English. R-50
1818 Food. M-100, F-25, B-25, R-50
1820 R-25, E-100.
1822 Food. Radio to French. R-25, E-100, M-50.
1824 Machine Tools to French. E-100
1826 Nuclear Power. Food. E-100, F-100, B-50, M-50
1828 Chivalry to French. NF to Mongols. E-75
1830 Food. Polytheism to French.
1832 NF to French (beakers drop). E-75, M-50
1834 Laser. Food. All techs to French except Adv Flight. F-75, E-75, M-50
1836 E-100
1838 Food.
1840 E-100, M-50
1842 Rocketry. Food. "weak" give all techs to Babs, except Adv Flight. R-50, E-50, Rockets to Mongols
1846 Food. R-50, F-50, E-100, M-50
1848 R-25, E-50, M-25
1850 Space Flight. Food. 57 freight. 3700 gold.
1851 APOLLO
1855 Plastics. 4 Structurals done. SF to BABS for Monotheism to clear tech path. B-100g
1860 Superconductor. 9 structurals done.
1864 Need to raise cash. SC to Romans, 250g. to Babs, 100g. Adv. Flight to English for 200g.
1865 Fusion Power. 14 structurals done. SC to English for 250g.
1866 15 Structurals done.
1868 2 components done.
1870 Robotics,
1871 3 modules done. Plastics to Romans, 200g.
1873 4 components done.
1875 Spaceship launched, 15-3-3-1-1-1. 967 gold left. Stealth.

1875-1890 Build the usual defenses, but no attack ever comes.

1890 AC landing.

A 1800s landing with a single size 1 city
using a location that occurs with regularity on a random map.

samson

[Scouse Gits]

Congratulations ...
The impossible merely takes a little time ...

------------------
Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[John-SJ]

In the oriiginal Civ wasn't the 3E (English, Emperor, Earth) challenge the ultimate? And now the only thing left is to make it to AC without ever establishing even a single city.

John-SJ

[Mixam]

Wow I'm impressed I go on vacation for two days get back and another person has made the size one OCC trip to AC. This time without the benefit of two specials and regular game instead of scenario. I said it was possible Samson. That didn't mean you had to do it so darned fast

[samson]

Thanks, all.

Yeah, you said it could be done, Mixam. I didn't really believe it.
The truth is, the game wasn't even that difficult. It was suspenseful,
but that was because I didn't know if it would work or not and because
of my Key Civ discovery.

Actually, I think this one is almost an "automatic win" at Deity if you can put
up with the tedium of caravan building and begging for handouts every turn.
I also think a size 1 OCC game could be won using Wine instead of Gold.
But it won't be me that tries it this time.

samson

[Ribannah]

When I find the time, I will try a size 1 city on glacier terrain

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[samson]

It wouldn't surprise me (too much) if you succeeded, Ribannah.

If you have no feet, don't walk on ice.

[Mixam]

I guess the next logical OCC challenge would be a size one OCC where you are only allowed to work the city square. So the other worker in the city has to be changed to an Elvis. May be possible with wine on a river. Don't know if it could be done with gold on a river because of the lack of production. But since Samson found the size one OCC to be pretty easy maybe someone can do this. Notice how I say it might be possible but don't do it myself?

[EOL]

Nice job Samson, I have just started on a small random map game where this combination of gold, river and ocean squares are within the city radius and is v near the starting location of the civ that I started as. I can post the 4000bc save if any wants to play it. Perhaps it might make a good comparison game.

EOL

------------------
"One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make sure it is worth watching."

[Guest]

Congratulations, Samson! Another amazing OCC record - again. I'm absolutely amazed that this could be done at 1800's. Clearly even this isn't the ultimate result.. there are still over 120 turns unused! What would be next challenge? OCC size 1 - without wonders other than SF?

[samson]

quote: When I find the time, I will try a size 1 city on glacier terrain.

I thought you were joking, Ribannah.
Then I was goofing around last night and got a polar start. First time I'd seen that.
I explored a bit and found an Ivory special. Just for kicks, I founded my city on it
and worked an ocean square. It gave a stable size 1 city with 6 trade and 2 shields.
Quite sufficient to win a size1 single city game, in my opinion.
I'm not going to actually play it out, mind you, but I'm sure it would win.

quote: What would be next challenge? OCC size 1 - without wonders other than SF?

Or how about a size1 city in which you must build all 28 Wonders, APOLLO last?
Of course, Ribannah would have to do it on glacier terrain.

samson

Ooops, forgot.
Thanks, EOL and Marko.



[This message has been edited by samson (edited April 24, 2001).]

[Scouse Gits]

Now in GL - thanks samson
______________
The GSs getting dyslexic

[solo]

Well done, samson! Exploring the limits of the game in this direction have uncovered a few big surprises, such as all the gold available through gifts, and the fact that smaller-sized OCC cities get you to AC just about as fast, and sometimes faster, than the big ones. In a way, OCC has been spoiled by your discoveries while downsizing, because there is not much skill involved in begging for gold and building caravans over and over and over. I got enough of that in OCC #25 with size 4.

Maybe the next search should be for the optimal OCC strategy and size for reaching AC the earliest, which might be a interesting idea to try for the next comparison game.

[Matthew]

Dag nab. This is getting ridiculous. In the manual, doesn't it insinuate somewhere that the programmers were'nt even certain at one point that winning at Diety was possible?

[Mixam]

LOL, Thanks Mathew I haven't had a good laugh in a while... It might I am not sure but In the version I have which was 2.42 when I got it; it says that the testing team could "sometimes" even win on Diety! But maybe they couldn't beat diety when your version of the game came out. I will be very impressed if someone does a size one OCC in Diety + 5 with Raging hordes + 2. I think that is the highest difficulty you can get by tweaking the rules.txt!

------------------
"I know not how I may seem to others, but to myself I am but a small child wandering upon the vast shores of knowledge, every now and then finding a small bright pebble to content myself with"
Plato