Why do players find Deity so difficult?

[Alexander's Horse]

Is it the unhappiness? The lack of turns? Is it less enjoyable? There seem to be 2 camps, those who only play Deity and those that don't.


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Founder, Dear Leader and Great Helmsman of the People's Republic of Topics www.delphi.com/prot1

[RyanR]

I find Deity un enjoyable. It seems that you only need one screw up to really end the game. You are playing on such a fine line between death and sucess. With Prince and King, the two levels I have been playing for years, you can get some great end-games without the hassel of constantly being on watch for rioting, aquiring NONE units early on, and generally playing at your very best.

Hmm.. well maybe that was not the best explanation. Anyway, I am in the "other camp" you described, even though I have been playing Civ1 and 2 for 8 or 9 years.

[finbar]

I suspect, also, a fear element. I avoided Deity level for quite a while in the early days. Probably on the basis that, being the most difficult level, there had to be something monstrously difficult about it.

The reality is that it's just more difficult in certain areas. Some argue that you're rooted without the Happy Wonders but it has been proved time and time again that you can succeed without them. It's simply that having them makes life a lot easier. I might also argue, BTW, that having the Happy Wonders can also lead to laziness. Having to deal without them certainly keeps you on your toes.



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[TCO]

It is based on false perception like RyanR about how hard diety is. I played a game after laying off civ for 2 years. It is just as easy as always. Deity schmeity.

[Dis]

OK here are my problems (although I have learned a few new tricks but haven't played civ2 so I haven't implemented them yet)

one is i was too perectionist. I let the ai build up uninterrupted. and I just couldnt' keep up with their cheating. by the time I reach gunpowder the ai has surpassed me in size (# of cities and population). plus I wasn't using caravans and trade efficiently.

the unhappiness really isn't tooo bad. but it is a nuisance.
[This message has been edited by Dissident (edited April 24, 2001).]

[Simpson II]

The first time I played deity, it was the unhappiness that killed me. I tried going up directly from prince, and when the first citizen in a city came up red I nearly quit then and there.

Once you can manage the unhappiness effectively there's not much more to winning; the one tip from Apolyton that really helped me in that game was to build the hanging gardens early.

I guess it took three months for me to go from chieftain to beating Deity, though with the current state of knowledge a determined player could probably do it in a couple of days.

[Sergei Vamos]

I think the happiness factor is the most difficult to get used to. But I've always got around this by switching to Fundamentalism. This totally eliminates the biggest problem in the Deity level as far as I am concerned. Fundamentalism also helps by producing "tithes" which can help with the finances at times in the game when otherwise the computer might sell your improvements for you.

[Laertes]

My biggest problem is adapting my tactics to the situation. I have a fairly rigid style, and when suddenly confronted by a small island, or a very close neighbour, I cannot focus on, and switch to the right tactic.

I find myself abandoning a lot of games by 1AD because I am so far behind and have not secured key wonders or critical mass, and my science rate is dumb.

I think new players at Deity dont have the appreciation of trade, alliances & demanding tribute, trading techs, city maximisation etc.

I am currently playing a game on a 5/6 city island, with high production squares all around, but no trade ones. I have lost the Colossus, and got Pyramids, and am going to have a curious mix of wonders. But at the moment, am growing fast, good science, and experimenting!! We'll see.

[Ming]

When I started playing Civ, I played Deity level. So the happiness problems were just a normal part of the game, and you learn to deal with them fast. Sure, I got smoked the first couple of times, but after that, it was more a matter of when I won, not if

[kcbob]

I play on Deity level. I win on Deity level. I also lose on Deity level. For me, it's just about the right difficulty level to keep my interest up. Like Fergus, I'll throw in the towel if I'm obviously going to get smoked. I usually make that determination around 1000 BC. And the games that I waiver on and forge ahead with sometimes are pleasant surprises in the end.

What makes Deity so difficult? Unhappiness of course. And the AI's aggressive behaviour in the MGE edition. For those of you who are having a difficult time with it, I do have a suggestion.

Give ICS try. It works wonders for demanding tribute from the AI and that can be a huge advantage.

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Frodo lives!

[lord of the mark]

well lets see - it depends

I play TOT - the AI is apparenlty even more aggressive there than in earlier editions

it depends on how you play -
I have tried ICS, and I will admit that it is much easier to win - at least with pure ICS, which is what i tried using. OTOH it is tedious, and loses all of what i like about civ. Why play on diety - an artificially difficult level - and then overcome the difficulty using an artificial strategy?

And playing perfectionist it is DIFFICULT - at least I find it to be so. Maybe its not if you make EVERY tactical decision correctly - but that demands obsessive micromanagement, - this is a game, dammit, not work. Yet on diety if i move the wrong unit, or fail to constantly check trade demand, or dont consult a guide as to the desired next tech to research, it can seriously set me back in that game.

Yet having played diety and won (my second perfectionist victory, AC in 2016) its hard to go back.In part because of the nagging feeling that there is a strat out there that will make it fun again, and that if i go back to emperor i will never find it.

LOTM

[lord of the mark]

quote: Originally posted by Simpson II on 04-24-2001 06:02 AM I guess it took three months for me to go from chieftain to beating Deity, though with the current state of knowledge a determined player could probably do it in a couple of days.

well yeah sure, download a guide to ICS and follow the recipe. Some of us actually tried to play the game on our own, and actually thought all those city improvements had been put in the game for a reason. I bought a game about civilization, not about settler construction.

LOTM

[drake]

I only play mp games, so I usually dont care what level I'm playing at, cuz everyone else is dealing with the same thing

But a 1x1x game on a large map with 7 civs at deity is the way the game was intended to be played if you ask me (not that anyone is)

[Blaupanzer]

Deity calls for a more focused style of play. Not only micromanagement but long-term stategies must be incorporated to get an actual "win" (AC or Conquest). Both ICS and OCC tend to focus the player, permitting the concentration needed to win against some strongly-advantaged adversaries (the AI). However, the AI can only win if the human lets it, as its advantages are all long-term in effect. These cumulative advantages mean little to a well-focused human. The unhappiness factor is just one more area calling for constant monitoring.

Hence, if you are the focused type, Deity is the most fun. If you like your games to be fun, but not that hard, Deity is not going to appeal. I play all computer games with a focused, 'I'm not here anymore, I'm in the game' style. Thus, Deity is for me. What surprised me most when I got to the level was how quickly my young civ could be killed, even if my play seemed correct. Now, I just start over if the luck runs real bad in the first 2,000 years.

[Chris1111]

Its not that I find the level hard its just that I like to enjoy my game and not have to worry about things to much. Playstyle is very rigid and just dont like things complicated . I also only just started playing civ again after not playing it for 2-3 yrs. I will be trying diety as my next game for the heck of it. Currently playing on emperor.