I've seen many people complain that Marines are useless. One thing, they are not useless. Even though Howitzers do make amphiboius assaults seems pointless marines have a good defensive factor and pretty cheap to build. And consider this, Amphibious warfare comes alot earlier in the tech tree than Robotics so I use marines quite often for amphibious assaulting.
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Smart use of Marines
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I think Ming's post contains a subtle message about the usefulness of marines...
1)They just aren't strong enough. vet alpine troop has strength 5 x 350% when behind city walls, that's 17.5. vet Marine is 8 x 50%= 12.
2) I can build a cavalry instead
The times i've tried it by getting it early, you need to have massive amounts of marines, like full transports, so democ is usually out.
I will sometimes build marines to defend cities with ridiculously high production before mech inf.
One way: i sometimes play a modpack where all units have attack +1, makes offense a little easier."Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
"...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
"sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.
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ya it all depends on what they will be attacking.They do have a decent attack number but if they are facing somewhat "modern" defenders their usefulness would be limited.They don't have to "land" first so they attack at full strength without "prep" work.If you could get them fast enough they would be great.The only thing that matters to me in a MP game is getting a good ally.Nothing else is as important.......Xin Yu
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This is an interesting topic. Some aspects should be tested.
a)When marines attack from the ocean, will city walls be effective?
b)When marines attack from the ocean, will coastal fortress be effective?
c)When marines attack from the ocean and win, will the city population decrease?
Suppose the answers are all 'NO', then sometimes marines are better than other land units in attacking (because of no population decreasing); however, if you really can attack from the ocean, why not choose bomber, heli, or battleship?
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I think they're affected by city walls.
I don't know about amphibious units not reducing population.
If u have helicopters, I use paratroopers and bombers."Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
"...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
"sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.
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I once attacked Washington with 3 (three, count 'em) transports full of marines. I lost the lot on about three vet alpine troops. I was beginging to wonder if they were affected by both coastal fortress AND city walls. Nowadays I'll just pound a city to death with a battleship or whatever and send in a couple of marines to claim. You can't fight with them though IMHO.www.neo-geo.com
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I'm not so sure that city walls affect amphibious assaults by marines. Against the ai, I frequently use marines to take one or two cities on an island. This is particularly effective if you pick your target carefully and hit where defenses are weaker. But even with city walls, vet marines usually get the job done with a higher rate of success than I would expect if city walls worked, although you might want to have two transports rather than one, depending on the situation. Those are just my observations, not the results of any kind of study, though. The window of opportunity for marines might be small, but it's there."I think the advantages by the proposal which I have made are obvious and many, as well as of the highest importance."
Jonathan Swift
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About the only time I build a marine is if I have a city that really needs a unit becaue the AI is headed that way and I'm not sure whether an offensive or a defensive unit would be better for the situation. Marines are good at both.
Other than that, the only time I select a marine is when I am in the process of rush building howitzers or stealth fighters.If you can not think of a good reason to build something other than a caravan, build a caravan!
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I was playin around with some marines today and I found they are pretty useful in attacking and capturing those fortresses the ai loves to build.Unfortunately the ai didnt have walls or coastals yet and I'm not patient enough to wait for them.Also as they hugged a coastline heading to cities, they were able to carry out coastal barrages and pick off the odd unit left on a coast.This kept my escort ship from taking any damage and thus keeping it at maximum defensive ability.
There are probably several tactical situations where marines might be useful.The only thing that matters to me in a MP game is getting a good ally.Nothing else is as important.......Xin Yu
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I must say it sounds like you play a very different game of civ to me smash. Probably a more interesting one. My idea of tactics in civ warfare is to build forty odd howies and drive through twenty enemy cities a turn.
Does anyone else give the AI railroad early to make sure you can conquer at the speed of light?www.neo-geo.com
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johnmcd...probably not,I just try out all kinds of stuff mainly for MP where 1 strategy doesn't work.I'm trying to learn how to be strategically flexible.The only thing that matters to me in a MP game is getting a good ally.Nothing else is as important.......Xin Yu
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