Apolyton's "Great Library"

[SlowThinker]

Post 1 of
"The Great Library: a hierarchical structure" thread contains a detailed explanation of keywords now.

SGs, we could reconstruct Post 1 of Apolyton's Great Library" into a starting page with links etc. now

Sirotnikov,
See my post here (posted March 23, 2001 22:08; "In fact, it is not very important...")
My idea is that a .hlp file will keep something similar to a table of "The Great Library: a hierarchical structure" thread

I think that threads will always need corrections.
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 15, 2001).]

[SlowThinker]

How to build a condensed thread (Info:...)

The prototype thread is "Info: diplomats and spies" thread

I will try to summarize hints how to do it. Regard them as suggestions only, the final look depends on your decision. But the existence of a standard look has some advantages: It would be more comfortable for readers and a prospective moving of paragraphs between threads would be easier.

The main post (Post 1 in the "Info: diplomats and spies" thread) needn't be held on the same place as the debate (if you want to keep it on your own web pages for example). But I suggest it: It is simpler to load everything in all and any reader can see the newest knowledge or theories (not included into Post1 yet) easily.

Name the thread Info: topic,
where topic is taken from a table in "The Great Library: a hierarchical structure" thread.

When I made "Info: diplomats and spies" thread, I went to SEARCH button and I searched for words spy, spies, diplomat, brib, sabotag etc. But you may search also for "keywords" (see "The Great Library: a hierarchical structure" thread).
You can put new keywords if there are no ones or missing ones in threads you work with.

Use posts for additional informations and reserve one or two posts for a future use (posts 2-5 of "Info: diplomats and spies" thread).

Don't be afraid of the html code if you don't know it:
Use the Post 1 of "Info: diplomats and spies" thread:
Load "Info: diplomats and spies" thread, go to edit button and copy the content to a Windows clipboard. Then make a new file through Notepad (or any text editor), paste the content of the clipboard in, and save the file with a .htm extension. Exit the text editor. Open your something.htm file using a html editor (you have to use (at least for the first time) a WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) editor: for example a built-in editor in IE (Front Page Express) or Netscape (Netscape Composer)), edit it and save it.
Unfortunately, you cannot send the result to Apolyton immediately: a standard html ignores EOLs (end-of-line-markers), but Apolyton mixes html and EOLs. You have to replace all EOLs by spaces:
I use MSWord for that purpose: I copy my something.htm into something.txt file and I open it in Word. I use the replace function (Ctrl-H) and I replace all ^p by ^s (I have made a simple macro for that procedure).
The text is ready now: you have just bring it (through a clipboard) to an Apolyton input field.

It is useful to keep links to threads that were not abandoned, i. e. to threads that contain a semifinished problem. (See yellow parts of Post 1 of "Info: diplomats and spies" thread: 3.9 (emerging partisans) and 12.1 (industrial sabotage)).

Help others to maintain build and their condensed threads. Or create a pair or a group that will build one thread. The cooperation improves the morale.

Any suggestions to improvement of this article are welcomed!
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 16, 2001).]

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Sorry, ST, I followed your instructions to the letter, and it does not work on my pc. When I save your spy thread and load it into ANY text editor, there is either no html code at all, or the file is so full of it that it is a sea of incomprehensible jibberish. Perhaps you could post how to do the absolute basics:

1. make a link to other text within the same post
2. make tables (and fill them, if that's not intuitive)

Also, I saw your note that the search engine does not work on edited posts AFTER I had already edited by keyword post. Any ideas on how to work around this? I'll keep it as is until our keyword discussion is resolved...

[Marquis de Sodaq]

duplicate
[This message has been edited by Marquis de Sodaq (edited April 15, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Marquis de Sodaq (edited April 15, 2001).]

[SlowThinker]

I have edited the post "How to build a condensed thread " a little.

Marquis de Sodaq,
It must work. I hope you didn't save all the thread, only content of first post. Didn't you miss
and save the file with a .htm extension. Open your something.htm file using any html editor ?

[Roman]

This thread is getting rather long. Wouldn't it be wise to start a new one on this topic?

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Thanks, ST, I'll try my html luck again in the next day or two.

Re: improvements and wonders

It has become clear that GL threads on various topics will refer to various improvements and wonders. Do we want to create a static thread for these? Basically, one that lists all we know about them that can be linked in references from other GL threads? Or do we keep them disparate?

The appeal of keeping city improvements and wonders in a separate thread is organization - they are all the same type of game element.

Sorting them by type - putting economic improvements into one thread, defensive into another, science into a third, is useful because it eliminates the need for any link.

It comes down to how we choose to group things. There are 2 options:

• all GL info threads link to the improvement/wonder thread as appropriate
• improvements/wonders are not summarized in one thread, but only when relevant to another topic

What do the other librarians think?

[Marquis de Sodaq]

damn, another duplicate post...
[This message has been edited by Marquis de Sodaq (edited April 16, 2001).]

[Scouse Gits]

Keep things simple and use an alphabetical index!
------------
SG(2)

[SlowThinker]

double post
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 16, 2001).]

[SlowThinker]

I have edited the post "How to build a condensed thread" again.

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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq Also, I saw your note that the search engine does not work on edited posts AFTER I had already edited by keyword post. Any ideas on how to work around this? I'll keep it as is until our keyword discussion is resolved...

I have brought the problem to the Apolyton/Community forum...See http://www.apolyton.net/forums/Forum20/HTML/001480.html , posted April 16, 2001 12:47, it is comical.

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quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq Re: improvements and wonders

I vote for improvements/wonders are not summarized in one thread, but only when relevant to another topic.
There is an idea of one large hyperlink structure for advances, WoWs and improvements (a kind of the tech tree) in the table at "The Great Library: a hierarchical structure" thread, row 5 (lists). But I suppose there would be just basic informations (shield cost, prerequisites...)

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quote: Originally posted by Roman This thread is getting rather long. Wouldn't it be wise to start a new one on this topic?

Yes, this thread served for two purposes from the beginning:
as the place where to store useful information and
as the place where to debate about it.

I agree we bring some portion of a mess, but it shouldn't harm: IMHO all useful information should be stored in the first post at final stage (or the first page).

[SlowThinker]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 04-16-2001 02:08 PM Keep things simple and use an alphabetical index! ------------ SG(2)

Be more specific.
My idea is that an alphabetical index may be built when condensed threads will be finished.

[Ming]

As has been pm'd to me... this thread is over the traditional limit.
I will leave it open so you can prepare for the next thread. What I would like to do is set up a Locked index thread for you to use. It will also be a sticky thread. When modifications need to made, I can be contacted to un lock it so somebody can make updates. It can then be locked again.

A second thread will also available right below it so discussion can continue.

What do you think???? Will that work?????

Discuss it some, and let me know. I will have to close this thread soon... And thanks for all your hard work. This thread is just another reason why people come to Apolyton.

------------------
Ming
ACS Civ II & OT Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

[Scouse Gits]

I think we should adopt Ming's idea. It will be simple and easy to use. The first locked thread will contain all the information about the game's functions and playing strategies, whilst the second one will allow for discussions about the Great Library to continue.

An index in alphabetical form is the universal approach to finding most required knowledge. The more elaborate approaches like the "Hierarchical Structure" may be a project for the future. I have to admit that I have reservations about this format. Firstly, it would take a lot of time to set up the structure and keep it up to date. Secondly, I see a real danger in the concept being easily misunderstood. There is currently a thread in the General Section about having a hard time liking Civ2. I would hate to see a new poster seeking information in the Great Library, and then thinking, "This is more complicated than the game itself!". In short, I don't see any reason to reinvent the wheel. To impart knowledge we must communicate in simple formats - and that is an index.

------------

SG(2)



[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited April 17, 2001).]

[SlowThinker]

alphabetical index vs. hierarch. structure

SG, I can't imagine your idea of the index probably. What text do you want to index? And how do you want to do it?

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits I see a real danger in the concept being easily understood.

The basis of the concept is the structure of "Info: diplomats and spies" thread. Do you think that it is too complicated? Or do you mean the system of "keywords"?

I have noticed one or two weeks ago that you prefer an alphabetical index, but you didn't answer my response . We should debate it immediately.

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Closing this thread

There are three things included in this thread:
A. links to interesting threads and web pages
B. concrete information about the game's functions and playing strategies
C. debate about the look of the GL

A.: Some volunteer could move them into one post of "Locked index thread".
B.: Can be conserved in this thread.
C.: We can start a new thread, say in the first post that the debate started here and add the link towards this thread. The new thread needn't be kept on the top.

quote: Originally posted by Ming What I would like to do is set up a Locked index thread for you to use.

Ming, do you mean something like "Apolyton Birthday Calendar" with a fixed number of posts? I welcome this idea. Maybe the unlock-lock procedure isn't needed: won't be simpler if we will just send you an edited text of a post if needed?

I think the "Locked index thread" may be the only thread on the top of the forum: any important thread may be referred from there:
-this thread
-a new thread that will cover C.
-pivotal threads of any form of the GL (I mean the concept of condensed threads, the "keyword" concept, the SG(2)'s concept of alphabetical index...)

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits The first locked thread will contain all the information about the game's functions and playing strategies

IMHO the first locked thread should contain commented links only.
all the information about the game's functions and playing strategies
is spread over all the Apolyton, how do you want to get it into one thread?