Yet another list of data

[Sten Sture]

IIRC in the first list of data thread Catalus or Xin posted the formula as a derivative of (a+1)*(b+1) modified by (c) which depended on how advanced you were relative to the other civs. These numbers do hop all over the place, but one thing I have never seen is the advance calculation changing in the first 10 advances for starting techs. It may kick in later, and the numbers do change based on your position, but not all of the time and not by that much.

This continues to be my favorite topic of dicussion on the Strategy boards, thanks to everyone who has contributed.

[MacUser]

Bump to try and make printable.

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"And now for something completely different..."
- John Cleese

[debeest]

Sandmonkey, your question is one of the few things I've figured out for myself. The number of beakers needed for the next advance is almost always an integer multiple of the tech number. As the number of techs goes up, so does the integer, but not with every advance. So the first tech (in a mid-size world) is 1 x 10, the next one is 2 x 11, the next one is 3 x 11, and the 10th one might be 10 x 12 (as in your post). The "interval" is just a function of that, and that's why it looks random.

As has been so widely noted, the beaker cost of an advance depends partly on your position relative to the AI. That manifests itself as a reduction in the integer multiplier: e.g., the AI gains a tech, and your cost for tech #10 goes from 10 x 12 to 10 x 11. I haven't been able to study the relative-position issue very well yet. The OCC-ers tout the importance of giving away tech in order to keep your own tech cost low, but I rarely find any change in my cost when I give away civs. I'm pretty sure there's no change unless an AI civ gains an advance that none of the other AI civs have. I'd love to be further enlightened.

[debeest]

Forgot to mention: starting techs don't count. If you get three free to start the game, then #4 costs 1 x 10, #5 costs 2 x 11, #6 costs 3 x 11, etc.

Note: these costs for techs 1, 2, 3 are from deity level, while your 10 x 12 is king. At deity, tech #10 is probably more like 10 x 15, I don't remember offhand.

[Caesar]

Someone actually dug this thread up, from january!! Wow, not so old days , well now I've got a new login.

A few things to add, the number of civs doesn't matter within itself.

The number of techs your opponents have does not make a difference.

The number of turns elapsed does not make a difference.

quote: I had previously made a note that I needed 378 beakers, and after the announcement the requirement dropped to 360 beakers!

Possible explanations for that are endless... your cities grew to produce more beakers, their cities grew to provide more you with more science from perviously established trade routes. From what I've seen it doesn't seem to make a difference.

[debeest]

Caesar, the number of civ (advances) certainly does make a difference. If you meant, the number of civilizations doesn't matter, I think you're right.

The AI civilizations' technological level clearly does matter. More AI tech means cheaper tech for you. I just haven't been able to determine exactly how the relationship works.

Your proposed explanations don't account for the change in the number-of-beakers-needed.

Note that the example you just quoted is consistent with my explanation: 378 = 18 x 21, and it dropped to 360 = 18 x 20.

[Caesar]

Note the words From what I've seen

It is very likely that I am wrong, but that was based solely on my observations. I will try to create other controlled expirements to see wether or not this is true, if so then to what extent.

[Sten Sture]

Tom DeMille had an OCC game post that demonstrated the impact of fewer civs on individual research costs. More civs = lower cost. There have been numerous posts that demonstrated that the relative number of AI civ advances impact the research cost. More advanced AI = lower cost.

If you are going to do some additional testing of this stuff some of those posts might give you a couple of ideas to choose from. I'll try to dig up a link or two.

[Tom DeMille]

Maybe someone can ask one of the original programmers of civ2 what the formula is.

The main thing to keep in mind is that the beaker cost of techs increases, and that you pay a premium if you get ahead of the AI.

[SlowThinker]

{advances}
{beakers count}
{}{SlowThinker}{end1}

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