What units do you never build?

[Thoth]

quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia on 02-26-2001 01:10 PM I find it really bizarre that you can still have Frigates hanging around after Ironclads are built if you follow the right research paths, simply because Transports don't come along until after Industrialization.

It's even more bizare when you have a couple of Frigates left when you discover Nuclear Power.

Edward and the SG's: I agree, Railroad is a great advance, but I'm virtually always a Democracy at that stage of the game, and I find it hard to resist the temptation of putting off railroad for a few more turns so I can squeeze a few more people into my cities via WLTPD, especially if I'm running at a 20% luxury rate.

I'm sure ironclads are great if you can build them, but I never get the chance, Electricity is a higher priority for me. I *HATE* giving the AI anything for free (via the GL).

[Scouse Gits]

I guess the only unit I 'never' build is the Helicopter, but there are a host of units on the once in a blue moon list.

------------------
Scouse Git[1]
"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[LeeT]

Ribannah's note is exactly why I almost never build ironclads, or Cavalry for that matter. The game designers needed Cavalry as a progression from Dragoon to Armour, but from 1815 to 1915, actual cavalry was essentially useless, unless the horse was exclusively used as transportation. And whether using a "real" map or a random one, I try and follow the historical path of whomever I pick as my civ.

I usually pick a grand "strategy" at start and play accordingly. If I'm playing the Mongols, for example, I'll build no defensive units or city improvements, but have Horsemen, Chariots, what-have-you everywhere, and endlessly attack. If the Japanese or Romans (neither of whom had any cavalry of note) Legions will be the pre-gunpowder backbone of the army, I will attack to gain an area, but then settle and fortify it before moving on.

My current favourite is playing England, which means not only mostly naval, but instead of picking a defined territory, I sail around and try to find a juice place to drop a colony, preferably off an AI's coast. I end up with a scattered, hard to defend empireand fight off the various attacks, as I end up everyone's neighbour. I've never bothered with destroyers or subs until I started this "strategy," but for an isolated island by itself, a destroyer on patrol and a sub in port waiting to strike is more flexible and cheaper than a lot of other options. I limit myself to one army, of upto eight units, with which to attack, and marines have proven themselves handy, and not too costly considering the small size of the army over all.

I find it fun to just try something you never bothered with before just for the challenge.

[Smash]

..and that is why Civ2 has had the longest play life of any game I own.

[EdwardTKing]

I never build Helicopters; they are expensive and vulnerable. While they can capture an empty city; they can not hold it against counter attack.

Other units I seldom build are Marines as expensive and sea attack will fail against fortified Riflemen behind a coastal fortress. I also tend to make limited use of chariots preferring cheaper horsemen for scouting
or more effective elephants, crusaders, knights for attack.

[Dis]

lots of them

exploerers
Legions and Archers (only get them out of huts)
spies (just don't like unconventional warfare)- I'll build dips just to set up embassys
crusaders
catapults, elephants, and cannons (I prefer late warfare)
horseman (only get them out of huts)
knights (same as above they turn into knights after I get leos)
warriors (unless the situation is hazardous I wait until bronze)
cruise missles- cost inneficient
frigates
galleons (unless leos upgrades my caravel)
ironclads
destroyers
marines
alpine infantry (occasionally I build these if I am in war and am not close to mech infantry)
paratroopers (too much hassle)
Partisans (no one in their right mind would build these)

and caravans (just kidding)


[This message has been edited by Dissident (edited February 27, 2001).]

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Dissident apparently doesn't build much - 20 units that he never builds!

Most units have a place in the game, as seen from everybody listing that they don't build this - except in this or that situation. I never use:

fanatics - fundamentalism just isn't much fun (i'm a perfectionist)
frigates - galleons carry more, and these are worthless against the soon-to-arrive ironclads
chariots - just an expensive horseman
warriors - everybody seems to like them for civil unrest, but I just never bother with them. they can't defend, they can't attack, they're too slow to explore, what's the point?

[Scouse Gits]

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq on 02-27-2001 10:30 PM warriors - everybody seems to like them for civil unrest, but I just never bother with them. they can't defend, they can't attack, they're too slow to explore, what's the point?

Don't dismiss the humble warrior. They can put up heroic stands. Early in the game when a barb archer appears on your doorstep you can sometimes kill it with a warrior - assuming the archer has no terrain advantage. Two warrior attacks have a good chance of success.

Barb archers have a defence of 1. (Thanks DaveV) However, they attack at 3. Kill them before they have a chance to strike at you! Offensive defence pays dividends.

------------

SG(2)

[Sieve Too]

The puny Warrior is just so cheap that he's your best ticket to allowing early Deity cities get to size 2 and 3 so that you can quickly build what you really want to build: Settlers.

As to defense, just two barbs will overwhelm your Phalanx so you're gonna lose anyway. Make Polytheism and Writing a priority and attack invaders before they reach your cities. Diplos can buy back your cities for cheap and you get a decent unit in the bargain. After you have a few cities, you should be establishing choke points on good terrain. Save your Phalanx for these places. With choke points, the AI won't even get near your cities so Warriors are as good as anything else.

[La Fayette]

quote: Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq on 02-27-2001 10:30 PM I never use: frigates - galleons carry more, and these are worthless against the soon-to-arrive ironclads chariots - just an expensive horseman warriors - everybody seems to like them for civil unrest, but I just never bother with them. they can't defend, they can't attack, they're too slow to explore, what's the point?

1) Frigates
Have you ever built a squadron of vet frigates?
(the tech path is shorter than the one leading to ironclads, hence with a bit of careful planning you should be able to use them quite a while before facing the first enemy ironclad, then you probably lose 1 or 2 frigates before sending the ironclad to the bottom; but, if your squadron is numerous enough, you just go on taking ALL AI cities close to the ocean and
RULE THE SEAS WITH YOUR FRIGATES (HELLO MR NELSON!)

2) Chariots
Expensive horsemen, but worth the expense: they beat ANY unit pre gunpowder in the open (except rough,... but who wishes to be riding in the rough? (hello Mr Ballesteros!)

3) Warriors
SG has explained (hello chieftain!)

[Sieve Too]

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette on 02-28-2001 09:52 AM 1) Frigates Have you ever built a squadron of vet frigates? (the tech path is shorter than the one leading to ironclads, hence with a bit of careful planning you should be able to use them quite a while before facing the first enemy ironclad, then you probably lose 1 or 2 frigates before sending the ironclad to the bottom; but, if your squadron is numerous enough, you just go on taking ALL AI cities close to the ocean and RULE THE SEAS WITH YOUR FRIGATES (HELLO MR NELSON!)

How do you make them vets? Lighthouse expires with Magnetism. Port Facility is too far off.

quote: 2) Chariots Expensive horsemen, but worth the expense: they beat ANY unit pre gunpowder in the open (except rough,... but who wishes to be riding in the rough? (hello Mr Ballesteros!)

The AI likes the rough. The early game is especially filled with rough terrain. The Chariot's poor defense means you are likely to lose them to any counter attack, even from Horsemen and Warriors. While they may be able to defeat most units on grass/plains, they'll probably lose enough hp and end up with only 1 movement point. At least with an Archer or Legion you can stick them on a mountain and they can hold their own, attacking and defending.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Helicopters. They don't move fast enough to offset the fact that they are weak, weak, weak on defense! I can't countenance spending 100 shields on something that fragile. If they moved a bit faster they might be a good exploration unit, but they never seem to last long in combat.

Stealth Bomber. Stealth fighters are cheaper and more versatile, and AI cities don't seem to require the amount of 'punch' a SB can deliver.

Archers/Legions. In the very early part of the game, I spend most of my time building defensive units (warrior, phalanx, pikeman) and 2-move attack units.

Cannon/Artillery. Catapults, I do build, just because sometimes my early cities need something to kick out AI legions/knights... but cannon and artillery are overshadowed by Dragoons/Cavalry, which attack well enough and are more flexible, being 2-move units.

Partisans. Too expensive for something that's basically a weaker version of Alpine Troops. I never seem to have much call for that 'ignore ZOC' function - that's what Spies are for!

Cruise missiles. I kind of dislike spending shields on a 1-shot, 1-dimensional unit, and besides, they're just too hard on happiness.

STYOM

[Dis]

maybe I should clarify what I do build. I even build less units than those listed above.

Helicopters: yes they do have a purpose- although not the intended one. they are great for taking size 1 or 2 cities out in the middle of nowhere (ie not connected by roads). These are very hard to find and take over with howitzers. And if I'm playing the earth map I always have these cities in northern russia.

phalanxes: gotta defend the cities with something. although I don't know how you diety guys do it. the ai Archers kill my phalanxes a lot of times! But that is the best I'm going to get until leos upgrades me to pikeman- no better against archers though. my only hope is to have an offensive unit close by.

caravans/freight: of course

settlers/engineers: hard to play without these

horseman: occasinally if I can't get them in a hut

tireme: I just can't wait for navigation (perhaps why I lose magellans so often to the ai). i need trade routes and embassys. and I can't stand black areas!

aegis cruisers: they kick ass- they can't bombard like a battleship, but they can hold their own in naval warfare without being bombed by cruise missles

carriers: I build these often- esp on earth map if I can't get airbases set up. But once my planes have a foothold on the new continent I can care less if the ai blows them up with missles

battleships: always build if the ai doesn't have cruise missles- they are tanks

armour: movement 3 good attack 'nuff said

howitzers: how else are you going to win the game if you haven't already?

transports: tranporting 8 or 16 howitzers can seriously f*ck up the ai. If in war I escort them with aegis

fighter: great for knocking out the ai's pathetic attempt at an air force

bombers: just to make the takeover that much faster

dips: only to build embassys- I dislike unconventional warfare

mech infantry: replacement for rifleman- fairly cheap

calvary/knights: only if in war and/or being harrassed by barbs

that's it folks, I'm too lazy to build anything else. I don't build rifleman because if playing the ai, I always get leos.

[Sieve Too]

I've got to put in a good word for the underappreciated Artillery unit.

Once the AI has Riflemen, your expensive Cavalry units are hard pressed to take any more cities. Large AI cities with 4 or 5 vet Riflemen are just too tough. You either blow a dozen Diplos just trying tear down the walls or you blow 15 Cavalry in a suicide attack. Either way, it sure slows down the blitzkrieg. If the city is on a river, forget it. If the AI gets (or steals) Tactics, your days of conquering with Cavalry are truly over.

That's where the Artillery unit shines! Being a clever player, you long ago gifted the AI with Railroad so they can make conquering ever so easier. Bring along 3 or 4 Engineers and a couple vet Alpines. The Engineers build the fortress outside the AI city and fill in any needed non-railed squares. The Alpines sit in the fortress for defense. Bring up the Artillery on the rail line into the fortress and blast away. Vet Artillery have Att=15 and fp=2. Only 10 hits are needed to bring down defending Rifles or Alpines instead of the usual 20. This is an enormous difference.

Even when Armor becomes available, the fp of 2 make the Artillery unit better at killing just about anything, and they're much cheaper too. I like additional moves of Armor and Cavalry too, but this become less important when the world is filled with rails.

[jake03]

[quote]Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 02-25-2001 10:54 AM
Thoth - Ironclads are fun! But more important, the earlier you have them - the more lethal they are!!


Boy I have to agree ironclads are one of the funnest parts of the game. If I get them first I quit often sail them in every directions blowing up every city I find just for amusement.