What units do you never build?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

More questions, or polls if you will (I recently posted 2 in "General"). Just as it says: are there units you never build? Why? (Alternatively, are there good reasons to be building some of the units I ignore?) As a perfectionist (in civ, anyway... ), there are lots of units I never build, but even when I play world conquest I never seem to build:

1. Legions, catapults, cannons: before railroad, a 1-movement attack unit seems pointless; and while legions have a defense of 2, so do much cheaper phalanxes.

2. Destroyers: Ironclads are still around, cruisers are just around the corner; I just don't see the point.

3. Marines: weaker on the attack than armor, no better on the defense than alpines, and amphibious assaults never seem very effective. Why bother?

I could probably add cruise missles and carriers, but there are rare occasions when I build both. And you?

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Rufus T. Firefly (edited February 25, 2001).]</font>

[Smash]

[Fubla]

Legions and catapults come in handy for taking cities early on...sometimes archers just won't cut it and bribing is impractical. Marines also come along way before armor (at least for me, but then again, if I've got Sun Tzu, I like those PRESTO-veteran units), so they usually see some use. Plus I have a special forces unit that I drew all by myself and it gives a warm fuzzy feeling whenever i see it. But as far as I'm concerned, armor makes marines obsolete.

I don't really use destroyers either. They just don't pack enough punch to be worth it. Come to think of it, I don't really use ironclads, either. Not sure why, though...oddly enough, I tend to get through my games with no more than ten or so naval units. I'm perfectly content to let the AI knock itself unconscious on coastal fortresses. Or just move its ships around with no apparent purpose.

I never seem to use fanatics. Maybe because I never use fundamentalism. Oh well.

[Thoth]

quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly on 02-25-2001 02:59 AM 2. Destroyers: Ironclads are still around, cruisers are just around the corner; I just don't see the point.

I usually get electricity before steam engine (I never build the GL, but HG is a priority), so I never build ironclads.

quote: 3. Marines: weaker on the attack than armor, no better on the defense than alpines, and amphibious assaults never seem very effective. Why bother?

If I'm playing standard rules, I don't bother with marines, but if I'm playing a homemade mod, I'll sometimes build them. The mod gets rid of Alpine troops, and gives Marines the alpine ability (for an extra 10 shields). This I find, makes them worthwhile.

I never build archers, legions or partisans.

I very rarely build frigates, cannon or artillery. Mostly this is due to timing. They become available while I'm a Democracy and I'm busy getting my cities up to maximum size with lots of trade routes, improvements and busy engineers.

[Scouse Gits]

Thoth - Ironclads are fun! But more important, the earlier you have them - the more lethal they are!!

At this stage of the game you shouldn't be too concerned about losing the Gardens. (SoL should put you in a more advanced government than Monarchy) It is sad to see Railroad kill them off, but by delaying this key tech you are in danger of stunting the growth of your civ. I dislike Railroad for the reduction in Caravan bonuses, but gain compensation via Darwin with Industrialisation (transports) and Economics or The Corporation.

If I have Leo's I delay Electricity as I don't want my vet Ironclad fleet becoming green destroyers.

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SG(2)
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited February 25, 2001).]

[Qin Shihuangdi]

It depends a little bit on the level I'm playing and the overall objective, but normally I will never build

The early attack-oriented units: Warrior, Archer, Legion

-Since my early game is focused on rapid expansion, I don't have time and resources to waste on movement 1 units. I am always building settlers (and movement 2 units once I find another civ), and phalanxes before I switch to Wonder building and city improvements.

Cannons

-By the time they show up my science is usually at such an accelerated pace that I am already eyeing Artillery.

Dragoons

-Much the same as Cannons. Dragoons are glorified Crusaders (they have the 1 extra defense which means little by the time the AI is using Cannons). By the time Dragoons come around, I'm already thinking about Cavalry which have a much higher attack.

Alpine Troops

-Never saw the need for these. Veteran Rifleman are less costly and are "good enough." Mech. Infantry cost the same as Alpine Troops, have an additional defense, attack, and two movements.

Paratroopers, Marines, Partisans

-I consider these the "special forces" which I would only use in a scenario format. During a normal game, mass producing Rifleman, Armor, and Howitzers, is easier to do than to coordinate an attack with Paratroopers and Marines.

Frigate, Galleon, Ironclad

-My tech path is to Transports, which carry many more units, fairly quickly after Frigates and Galleons so there isn't much need for producing these. Caravels are good enough for the early game IMO, especially with Lighthouse and Magellan's. Destroyers come around so quickly after Steam Engine that I have never seen any need for building Ironclads. They cost the same and Destroyers have two more movement.

Helicopter

-I'm sure there are virtues to using Helicopters, but I rely on a more traditional Fighter approach as they cost less than Helicopters.

[War4ever]

well now i build things just to keep one of each unit in my capital to show the power of my civ and what stage the military is at Like a shrine.... someone else did this and thus inspired me to do it.....

if i have leos..... i don't build any industrial units as upgrades make them become the very units i want.....

however there are times when the odd legion sees construction.... especially if i am around alot of hills and all i have are warriors for martial law

however most times against the ai.... i opt for warrior defense with dips as back up and a few horses...... losing a city is easily countered by the bribe back.....and the shields wasted on anything other than martial law can affect you long term disposition


I second the early and sometimes super frigate!! Awesome sea power can never be overrated

i never build marines for all the above statements... plus they suck...

i don't build alot of fighters either..... the ai rarely gets them without me already having stealth

i don't build alot of artillery, or dragoons either..... it didn't work for Napoleon, so i doubt it would work for me either

[Ribannah]

as good as never:

Artillery
Cannon
Catapult
Cruise Missile
Fanatics
Helicopter
Ironclad(!)
Legion
Nuclear Missile
Partisans

seldom:

Archers
Bomber
Cruiser
Destroyer
Explorers
Marines
Paratroopers
Submarine

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[solo]

It's easier to list the only military units I need to build:

1) A phalanx to defend each city.

2) As many cheap horsemen and diplomats as possible.

3) A big fleet, buying and bribing the best of what is currently available.

Then, quickly to Leonardo's and Fundamentalism (via Statue of Liberty), and the war should be over before anything more advanced than cavalry are required.

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It is more pleasant to live in the corner of a housetop,
than in a wide house with a brawling woman.

[colossus]

I love Catapult!
It usually arrives earlier than legion, crusader or knight.(mathematics is a high priority tech) And one cannot just sit back for the AI's push out its elephants, legion, etc. Some strong attack units must be there, especially for choke points, catapult fills exactly that role.

[Tizzy]

Never:
Explorers ( )
Partisans
Destroyers
Horsemen
Fanatics
Frigates
Galleons
Paratroopers

Rarely:
Catapults
AEGIS cruisers
Helicopters
Carriers
Nukes
Crusaders
Submarines

[Sieve Too]

Never build:

Archer - crappy move, attack and defense, what a combo!
Legion - almost as bad, can't kill most defenders behind walls
Chariot - can't kill anything except on grass/plains
Explorer - too slow and the AI always demands withdrawl
Frigate - can't kill fortifying Muskets so kinda useless
Cannon - wait for Cavalry
Marines - truly useless
Trireme - Att/Def/HP of a Warrior, annoying to move, expensive and slow
Destroyers - wait for Cruisers
Helicopter - even a Rifleman can kill this loser
Cruise Missile - too expensive and causes unhappiness in Democracy


Rarely build:

Phalanx/Pikeman - choke points only
Catapult - choke points only
Horsemen - Diplos are better for exploring and need no support
Partisans - too slow, usually dies from counter attacks, fun for pillaging
Paratrooper - same as Partisan
Caravel - better than Trireme, build a few for trade
Ironclad - small window of dominance
Submarines - leave in a city and use as counter-attack to any ship
Carriers - cruise missile magnet, only build in very watery worlds
Battleship - too slow, cruise missile magnet, small window of dominance
Nuke - build only 1 so the AI is less likely to sneak attack


Good to build:

Warriors - cheapest martial law, build Leo and watch the fun
Elephant/Crusader - best defense is a good (and mobile) offense
Diplo/Spy - obvious
Musket/Rifle - vets cans hold off most anything of the era behind walls
Dragoons - can kill any pre-gunpowder unit, even behind walls
Cavalry - can kill Muskets behind walls
Alpines - take along for defense when conquering
Fanatics - el cheapo city defense
Artillery - fp of 2 - can kill Rifles and Alpines behind walls, even vets
Mech Inf - good against anything short of Howies and Bombers
Howitzer - obvious
Cruiser - fp of 2 easily defeats any earlier ship
Galleon/Transport - gotta get there from here somehow
AEGIS - the only non-transport ship worth building in the modern era
(Stealth)Fighter - excellent scout, pick off cheap units on easy terrain
(Stealth)Bomber - invincible if the AI is pre-Flight

[Edward]

Thoth,

I'll have to agree with Scouse Gits. Railroad is a great advance that can't come too soon for me. It lets you move your caravans and defenders around your civ in the blink of an eye (after building up your railroad network). Railroads can also beef up your shield production (e.g. in forests and mined hills). The tech tree narrows at railroad. It's the first of the industrial techs (railroad - railroads, industrialization - factories, the corporation - freight, electronics - Hoover Dam), all of which boost your infrastructure.

If you're using the Hanging Gardens, then you probably skipped the Oracle and built Michaelangelo's Cathedral. After you make your Hanging Gardens obsolete, you can boost your happiness up again with the Oracle (which I'm sure you'll have the tech for) or J.S. Bach's Cathedral (which will never expire). The AI isn't keen on either of these wonders.


Back on topic: I'm in agreement with any conqueror who uses two-movement units. I'd rather have a bunch of chariots than have to march up a bunch of legions. Guess I'm too impatient.

I also love the lowly warrior - he's cheap and quick to make. He can maintain martial law. He's an inexpensive fencepost to keep an AI penned in. He's a quickly bought defender for an empty city. He's invaluable for incremental rush buying. Long live the warrior!

[Alinestra Covelia]

I do use Helicopters occasionally, because they're one of the few air units that can conquer empty bases, which is especially useful against cities on one-square islands with none of my bases nearby (since they have a longer range than paratroopers).

I find it really bizarre that you can still have Frigates hanging around after Ironclads are built if you follow the right research paths, simply because Transports don't come along until after Industrialization.

[Ribannah]

quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia on 02-26-2001 01:10 PM I find it really bizarre that you can still have Frigates hanging around after Ironclads are built if you follow the right research paths, simply because Transports don't come along until after Industrialization.

Well, that's history for you. Ironclads were only used in a small part of the world anyway.



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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire