Trade Routes

[Scouse Gits]

Oil is sometimes demanded before Automobile - usually by a fairly large AI city. However, during the early years of demand it can suddenly change - usually to coal.
(This experience relates to: 2.42/Deity/Hordes on a large world)
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SG (2)

[Adam Smith]

Matthew:
I too have used wonder building caravans to change the commodities supplied. It seems to work better using commodity caravans instead of food caravans, but I have no idea why.

William Keenan:
I would agree that achieveing the industrialization tech generally causes cities to supply oil. However, I have alos seen cities which supply oil well before 0AD. While this could be part of the initial allocation of traded commodities among cities, there is, of course, no demand for oil at that time. Interesting idea about superhighways though. Any other thought on what begins or ends the supplyor demand for certain commodities?

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[Scouse Gits]

In my experience the demand for oil seems to have little relationship to superhighways. I think it might have more to do with the discovery of the Corporation - those trucks are around before the automobile - and they need oil.
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SG (2)

[SandMonkey]

Could the advent of which commodity is in demand change from game to game? I have found that when my cities change to the "modern look" changes from game to game. I've gotten it with Electronics, Automobile, and Computers. Maybe different advance can trigger the demand of something for each different game.

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[William Keenan]

quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith on 07-31-2000 08:17 AM William Keenan: I would agree that achieving the industrialization tech generally causes cities to supply oil. However, I have also seen cities which supply oil well before 0AD. While this could be part of the initial allocation of traded commodities among cities, there is, of course, no demand for oil at that time. Interesting idea about superhighways though. Any other thought on what begins or ends the suppler demand for certain commodities?

Yes Adam Smith, I have seen cities that supply oil before 0 AD as well. This of course is not something you want to have happen since no cities demand oil and without demand you don't get oil's value bonus of 350%.

I have done extensive research to discover other trigger technologies and trigger improvements. The only other one that I have found is for Uranium. Nuclear Fission causes the supply and demand for it.

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 07-31-2000 07:15 PM In my experience the demand for oil seems to have little relationship to superhighways. I think it might have more to do with the discovery of the Corporation - those trucks are around before the automobile - and they need oil. -------- SG (2)

There is no need for speculation on this topic because it is very easy to test. Go into cheat mode, give yourself industrialization and see what happens to the commodities your cities are supplying. Use the edit technologies option so you don't have to develop all the prerequisite techs first. Likewise, you can cheat in superhighways to verify that they cause the city to demand oil.

[Adam Smith]

I thought, and I think some others here have mentioned, that there was another condition on the supply of uranium. For example, nuclear fission plus a new city, or city less than size three, or city with mountain square. Also, I have a very subjective impression that AI civs stop demanding gold once they move out of monarchy. Your thoughts?

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[Scouse Gits]

William - If you are saying that an oil supply is guaranteed with industrialisation and likewise a demand guaranteed with superhighways - I'm sure you are correct. However, many AI cities have demanded oil long before automobile was even on the horizon - so there is considerable speculation on the subject.

What size of world did you use for your tests?

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SG (2)

[jpk]

William Keenan:

It may be that nuclear fission is necessary for cities to supply and demand uranium. It is not sufficient.

I am a compulsive micromanager checking every city every turn and, with some games, I have been deep into future technologies before I ever had a chance to build a unranium freight unit.

To be sure there were always many cities that demanded uranium.

If it matters I play with the Macintosh version. It is hard to imagine that their would be a difference with respect to uranium supply but I would not know for sure.

[smilo]

quote: Originally posted by Novi Nomad on 07-18-2000 09:10 AM D'oh! Didn't think about that. I guess that might explain the disappearing arrows...

It is possible for trade routes to dissappear, without the sending city was destroyed. This happened to me with self-trading cities (cities that trade with ... themselves). Under certain circumstances not yet understood, cities can trade with themselves. If a city does this during an extended nr of turns, trade routes can suddenly disappear. Why? No idea.

[jcarkey]

William:
If there is a "special" terrain square would that produce more trade? i.e. spice,gold,wine.

If a trade square, i.e. gold, is being used in the city management screen will that allow you to have more than one trade route with that commodity?(That's happened to me before but I'm not sure if it was a bug in my early version.)

Also, do certain terrain squares produce different supplies?

Thanks for being a brave soul digging into this tricky topic!

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[SCG]

quote: Originally posted by smilo on 08-08-2000 08:43 PM Under certain circumstances not yet understood, cities can trade with themselves. If a city does this during an extended nr of turns, trade routes can suddenly disappear. Why? No idea.

I've seen 2 different situations where a city could trade with itself.

The first was simply sending a bribed NON caravan in and establishing a trade route - it will create 2 actually, assuming the city having more trade than other cities (if any) it is trading with.

The other way I don't quite understand , and haven't been able to duplicate. For some as yet explained reason, a caravan built by a particular city was allowed to reenter the city and establish a trade route a couple turns later.

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[Scouse Gits]

The whole trade scene is an enigma. One game (2.42) I was Communist and started to send food caravans to increase the population of my capital. The contributing city never showed any loss of food!
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SG (2)

[Scouse Gits]

double post
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited August 23, 2000).]

[smilo]

I've had a game where over 40 cities could trade with themselves. I think the total number of cities and the development level influences the number of cities that can trade with themselves. But, as said above, I've never been able to get a grip on the workings that allow self-trading.

The self-trading works to the extend that you can produce a caravan send it 1 square out and back in all in the same turn. Even food caravans work fine, meaning that a city can take care of its own 'forced' growth, which comes in handy for cities isolated on islands. For obvious reasons this trick has been banisched from occ games.

[William Keenan]

quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith on 08-01-2000 11:31 AM I thought, and I think some others here have mentioned, that there was another condition on the supply of uranium. For example, nuclear fission plus a new city, or city less than size three, or city with mountain square. Also, I have a very subjective impression that AI civs stop demanding gold once they move out of monarchy. Your thoughts?

I think there is way too much complexity in that theory. In my experience the only thing that matters is which techs have been discovered.

If you want your city to produce uranium just build and deliver a trade commodity you don't ready want, like salt or hides. This will cause your supplied commodities to rotate and in all likely hood uranium will be the newly choosen commodity. Then just build a urianium caravan to replace that salt route you setup.

I can not confirm or disprove your theory about gold Adam. I would tend to think the the reduction of gold as a supplied commodity has to do with that fact that more new types of commodities are becoming available as supply items and gold thus is being selected less.

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 08-01-2000 03:10 PM William - If you are saying that an oil supply is guaranteed with industrialisation and likewise a demand guaranteed with superhighways - I'm sure you are correct. However, many AI cities have demanded oil long before automobile was even on the horizon - so there is considerable speculation on the subject. What size of world did you use for your tests?

I have never seen a city demand oil before industrialization. I have seen cities supply oil without industrialization however.

I use normal maps for my testing.

quote: Originally posted by jpk on 08-02-2000 02:45 PM William Keenan: It may be that nuclear fission is necessary for cities to supply and demand uranium. It is not sufficient. I am a compulsive micromanager checking every city every turn and, with some games, I have been deep into future technologies before I ever had a chance to build a unranium freight unit. To be sure there were always many cities that demanded uranium. If it matters I play with the Macintosh version. It is hard to imagine that their would be a difference with respect to uranium supply but I would not know for sure.

I addressed how to get your cities to supply urainium above.


Sorry it took me so long to answer you guys. Alas, life once again had to be put before civ ... ** sigh **