The caravan and the diplomat

[East Street Trader]

What a combination!

The caravan mossies on up to that remote foreign city demanding its goods. The diplo lurks in the caravan's shadows. The trade route is established and the gold pours into the diplo's pockets.

The AI rubs its hands at the prospect of benefitting from the route.

But hold hard AI! The diplo has emerged from the shadows; is talking to your citizens; and lo, their allegiance is not strong. The city's colour is changing and it seems that it is others who will enjoy the full riches of the route. No crumb will fall to you!

And the research bonus from the "foreign" trade with the trade arrows from both ends of the route? Why improved communications will ease the path of the deadly duo to their next unsuspecting destination in ever greater speed and comfort!

So you may talk of your nukes and paratroopers, of your spies and your cavalry, your explorers and your alpines. But draw up a chair to the fireside and let me tell you tales of the mightiest of the combos in the game.

The caravan and the diplomat.

[Ming]

You let the AI get diplo's near your cities?????

Bad move.... very bad...

[La Fayette]

Ming
My feeling reading this is that EST is talking about HIS beloved and vicious diplos being very very close to the AI's city (and never never the reverse).

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[East Street Trader]

Dead right mate!

Have you ever noticed that "their" spies are always the scum of the earth, deserving nothing but death and dishonour; whereas "our" spies are heroic folk to be festooned with medals and honours when successful and to be cried over and mourned when captured and executed?

[Scouse Gits]

Not sure about that EST ... remember George Smiley's hunt for the mole ... ?
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SG(2)

[Bereta_Eder]

I for once do not stack diplomats with caravans any more.

I used to do it. A nice peaceful mission crossing the calm nature of some distant civ in perfect harmony with the world due to their benevolent intentions. Waiving their hands in bliss and happiness preaching the awesome benefits of everlasting peace and trade as they walk on to their destination.

AND BANG THEY'RE DEAD.

Sneak attacks (or snak attacks as someone put it before). I've seen it so many times that my little old heart can't bear to try it anymore. NOw I stack a tank with them.

[La Fayette]

I love George Smiley.
Sure he was really a vet (though I never heard of the english monarchy switching to communism). Must be one more of those AI cheats. Send it to Ming (he's got a long list as far as I know).
Or perhaps we should ask Smiley to get close to Brian Reynolds (would save us lots of boring tests).

[East Street Trader]

Morality in the Looking Glass world is way beynd me! The "us" in that world seems to comprise all the spies (of whatever notional allegiance) and the "them" all the rest of us.

I was thinking more of those WW2 films - always in atmospheric black and white - where some ordinary, decent folk find themselves operating behing enemy lines in occupied France, sabotaging away and liaising with the resistance. If there are a pair of lovers you know they will both get caught and occupy adjoining cells, bravely keeping a stiff upper lip under the torture of the beastly gestapo and trying to keep each other's spirits up by yelling messages or tapping on pipes before the inevitable scene when each is led down into the courtyard and the camera cuts away while the sound of a volley of shots rings out.

Meanwhile in a film being made in the next lot some ghastly traitor is meanly fooling the good people of Surbiton into thinking he is a good egg when all the time, would you believe it, he is stooping so low as to sabotage the British war effort and subborning some lowly typist into, oh horrors, betraying king and country. What triumph when the rotter is caught and how fitting that he then come to the sticky end his conduct so richly deserves.

Luckily my spies and diplos are all of the first sort. Statistically unlikely as it may seem, the AI's are all of the second.

[Scouse Gits]

La Fayette - We seemed to have our share of communist moles during the Post-War years.

I doubt if that is a problem in Albi - is the birthplace of Toulouse-Lautrec still leaning to the "Le Pen" brand of politics?

EST - Oh yes, those black and white war films! Shows both our ages I'm afraid!
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SG(2)

[Smokey tha nuke man]

EST-i have my own variation of your system. it goes something like this:
i build a diplo, caravan, and archer or legion, then a knights (or freight, spy, dragoons, and partisan for more modern eras), the archer/legion acts as an escort for the diplo and caravan, while the knight acts as a scout, keeping an eye out for enemies,more profitable cities, and the such. when my scout gets to the objective city, i have him run a patrol loop to keep enemies away until my slower moving group makes. from the city radius in, my diplo ans caravan are on there own, because my escourt stays back to prevent an unwanted war (if i am already at war with the civ who owns a city, i just let the escourt continue on to stay as a city defender in case the city is insufficiently defended, and if i am using partisans as my scout, i then make them my escourt, because they can ignore zones of control), from then on, it's the same as the basic caravan/diplo combo.

[East Street Trader]

There is another advantage to having a powerful unit close by.

After the caravan arrives, you have an increased chance of extracting some preliminary tribute. This has the charming effect of both adding some AI gold to the yield from the caravan in preparation for the planned bribery and slimming down the AI's treasury just before your diplo starts sweet talking the city fathers (thereby cutting the bribe cost).

I am playing a game at the moment where I have adopted the aim of bribing every AI city (save the capitals, of course). Things have been going well and I have been making a fortune from trading silk and the occasional gold to the Aztecs who have some fat cities at a convenient distance from my homeland. Many of my cities produce silk and every one of the Aztec cities demand that commodity. I also have a sufficient chain of trusty triremes and caravels to reduce the risk of gold going out of demand.

Local barb activities suggest the Aztecs' units are mostly warriors. I have just researched Gunpowder (in one turn thanks to a 500 odd gold caravan to Tenochtitlan and a 300 odd silk to another city). I reckon the next set of caravans to arrive will be accompanied by a substantial detachment of the diplomatic corps plus one or two gentlemen with sticks that make a loud noise. It's my bet that the club wielding lads will not like the noise and a handsome payment will come my way.

The established routes yield four or five arrows apiece at each end. THEY MUST BE MINE, I SAY. ALL MINE.

I intend to rename the subborned cities "Bribery" "And" "Corruption" "Forever".
[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited January 19, 2001).]

[La Fayette]

EST
1)Black and white: only those two colours should be allowed when filming George Smiley or the moles.
2)Curiously all my dips and spies also are of the first type ( but believe me all my spies are vet).
SG
1) There is almost nothing left of Le Pen anywhere: his best friend betrayed him and there are 2 tiny parties very angry at each other instead of a growing one.
2) The museum dedicated to Toulouse-Lautrec is worth visiting. Of course you are welcome to my home, just in case.
3) Burgess? Mac Lean? Perhaps one of them learnt russian just like I learnt norwegian? Who really knows?

[eifersucht]

Semi-off-topic, but I've always thought that Isaac Newtons college should have some effect on spies.....


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dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus.
atque inter silvas academi quaerere verum.
exigi monumentum aere perennius...non omnis moriar.

[Scouse Gits]

La Fayette - May take you up on that some day!
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SG(2)

[Builder]

Not good...

After reading few threads here I got again this strong urge to play civ...

But I have exams!!!