Shakepeare's Theater

[suas333]

I usually don't build Shakespeare's Theater, but i am now in a game where i might be able to use it. I was wondering, do players normally sell off happiness improvements in the city they build shakespeare's in? I have a temple and a Colloseum to see off if i don't need them anymore. I don't plan on using We Love The King Days so i don't need them for that.

So, do i see off the temple and Collisum after i build Shakespeare's?

[St Leo]

Only if you are going to switch to Fundamentalism.

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
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[suas333]

So whats purpose do these improvements serve after i build shakespeare's? Under a communist government lets say.

[Smash]

No purpose.Sell em.Even if you were going to celebrate they only give content citizens so won't help "we love" at all.

They give tithes in Fundy but not worth the longterm upkeep.

You might keep the temple if you anticipate any sabotage attempts.

[suas333]

thanx a lot. And good point about the sabatoge attempts. Especially since i have Adam's...getting some small gold for selling the temple isn't worth giving up a cheap improvement for sabatoge, especially with no maintenance cost.

[SandMonkey]

Actually Smash, having the happiness improvemnts in your city do serve a purpose. They still help you to achieve WLTPD.

Shake's is a wonder, so it's effects are added to a city's happiness last. Therefore, if you take away improvements which are keeping citz content and they become unhappy, your luxuries have to keep these people content now, instead of making them happy. Any other citz that are still unhappy after everything has had it's effect is now made content my Shakes.

So if you still want to grow, or celebrate a "we love" day, then keep your improvements around.

I just tested this, so unless my copy of civ is wrong...

[Smash]

Well,if that were the case then we would never be able to celebrate up in OCC games.Shakes=No unhappies in that city.The only thing that happens is in Democracy,a unit away will make a happy citizen content which can mess up celebrations.Markets,banks,stock exchanges,superhighways and trade routes are what give you trade arrows.You allott trade arrows thru your tax advisor.More trade arrows=more luxury "cups"=more happys

"Happy" improvements are actually "content" improvements.They make people content.Economic improvements(thru tax rates) and courthouses(democracy) make people happy.

good terrain don't hurt either.

[Laertes]

But you cannot have WLTxDs if you have happies and red faces. I agree with Sand Monkey - my experience says that WLTxD days come a lot cheaper when you have temples and colliseums.

However, the topic starter said that he/she does not want WLTxDs, so then you can sell them.

[markusf]

What are you talking about? That city will never ever have unhappiness, you can have 40 units supported from that city in dem if you have the shields, and if all those units are in the field, you city won't have a single unhappy person.

[SandMonkey]

markus - i know there won't be any unhappiness at all. The fact is that by having one or two of the happiness improvements it can actually give you one or two extra happy citizens. I can't quite figure out how it works out to that though...

All I know is what i sw on the city screen... It might work that the luxuries make the person content and then happy. If there are only enough luxuries to make a person content, then when you add the "content" improvements, those luxuries then switch over to make that one or two citizens happy.

That could be totally wrong, of course. Oh, and like Fergus said, if you're not going for a WLTxD, then any happiness improvements are totally pointless.

[debeest]

Sand, you're missing something. Happiness comes primarily from luxuries, and the effects of luxuries are all counted BEFORE the effects of contentment improvements and wonders. First the citizens move one by one from unhappy to content to happy, based on luxuries alone; THEN any remaining unhappies can be placated by the improvements/wonders. This means that the contentment improvements and wonders have no effect at all on the number of happies. And with Shakespeare, there are no unhappies at all, ever. Thus, contentment improvements and wonders have no value at all in a city with Shakespeare.

Maybe there's one exception: HG or Cure can add a happy, and if that happens BEFORE Shakespeare, it might only move a citizen from unhappy to content. I think actually HG/Cure effectively happens AFTER Shakespeare, but I'm not sure.

[Juggler_Bob]

The key to Shakespeare's, as markusf implied, is when in republic/democracy. Build it in one of your highest (shield) production cities, and then make that city the 'home' of as many military units as the city can support. Then you can have a fairly large active military while still enjoying the benefits of Rep/Dem.

You can also sell off happiness improvements from the city in a pinch without the city going into revolt.


-Bob

[Laertes]

quote: Originally posted by markusf on 01-02-2001 06:04 PM What are you talking about? .

You're quite right. Re-read my post - total nonsense. I have no idea what I'm talking about, and am going back to the top to read this all again!

Fergus

[Edward]

Slightly off topic...

Do happiness improvements (not wonders, I'm talking temples, cathedrals, and coliseums) modify the number of luxury cups a city produces (e.g. +50%) or do they add to the base number of luxury cups a city produces (e.g. +2 cups)?

Factories don't create shields out of thin air, they add a percentage to the shields already being created by worked squares. Similarly marketplaces don't add to the coins being brought in by taxes. They take the coins already being brought in and multiply them by 150%.

However, temples help keep my citizens content even when my luxury rate is 0% and there are no entertainers in the city. How do temples help when there are no "natural" raw luxury cups coming in?

[Blaupanzer]

Edward,

The "happiness improvements" (more properly called 'contentment improvements') work independently of the money and production systems. Each improvement acts directly on X number of unhappy citizens, making them content.

Red unhappies are affected directly, but when black unhappies are acted on, the improvement's effect is halved. For example, a colliseum makes 4 red; OR 2 red, 1 black; OR 2 black unhappy citizens content.

This system is another interdependent operater affecting investment values and city-size decisions.