When to rushbuild, and when not?

[donwebb]

quote: Originally posted by Sten Sture on 01-10-2001 07:28 PM donwebb - are you familiar with using organized "We Love The President Day" celebrations to quickly increase population? By cranking up Luxuries periodically you can have a bunch of cities celebrate to their food maximum, then back off Luxuries to minimal levels until you get some additional square irrigated/supermarkets built. Repeat process every 15-20 turns.

Wow... taking notes here. Sounds great! How do you know when is the right moment to increase luxuries? When a certain number of cities have no discontented citizens or just one?

quote: On rushbuilding, I try to round off production early to avoid losing shield production - say, if a city had been running 3 shields and it grows to producing 5 shields with 12 in the box for a new settler; I will then rush phalanx & archer then switch to settler and let the city produce the last 10 shields.

Another trick I didn't know. It works because military units cost less than settlers, right? Sounds like a real time-saver.

quote: Also I will rush those early warriors after the first turn so I can use trade squares vs shield production and stay happy.

Not sure I follow... Rush warriors and then switch to settlers to increase trade production? I'm a compulsive irrigator, so I may be misinterpreting here.

[donwebb]

quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly on 01-11-2001 02:10 AM But lately I've been experimenting with rushbuiling factories as soon as they become available. As soon as I get industrialization, I go into any city that's building an improvement and change the improvement to a factory; then I buy as many as I can, buying the rest on subsequesnt turns. I haven't done the math, but it seems like getting extra shields sooner would pay fo itself pretty quickly. Anybody else do that?

That's a bold building policy, all right. I've obviously been playing too conservatively on the economic front. Normally I wait till a factory costs 100 g. or less to complete before buying it. That usually gives the city a 2- or 3-turn jump on completing the factory. But it saves money at the expense of time and production.

Not sure about your question whether the factory repays the rush startup cost in the medium term. Your idea makes sense, though: once a city has a factory, it's a lot easier to build money-making improvements.

[Chow Yun Fat]

Usually it is not wise to rush build a factory without Hoover Dam.
You spend about 400 gold for rushing a factory. The return is +50% city production - 4 gold per turn (without powerplant). At a production of 10 shields, the return will be about 5*2 - 4 gold = 6 gold. I am quite certain that the 400 gold spending on freight has a much better return.
Of course, if you have too much gold on hand, rush-building factory is a viable solution.

[Scouse Gits]

Just a quick note:
No-one has yet mentioned the fact that since units are cheaper than wonders (5::8 in fact) rushing a bunch of caravans is the most efficient way of speed building a Wonder, set 4/6/8 cities building caravans - put first shields in the box then rush Warrior (<25), Phalanx, Diplo, Settler, Caravan (25g each) total cost two turns and less than 125g - move into Wonder city for 50 shields (200g) each - three turn Wonder!
Also a good reason to avoid early Feudalism - it really wrecks your rush building.


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[Laertes]

quote: Originally posted by jcarkey on 01-09-2001 05:11 PM So, would you take a chance with a 2 move unit "luckily" getting in your city?

Not sure whay you mean. If I have recently founded a city without a unit in it, and the barbs turn up, in my experience they will always find and take the city.

(sometimes they offer to bugger off for some cash)

[La Fayette]

Donwebb,
1) I think Sten is advocating something close to what I tried to demonstrate with my "3 arrows" strategy: many people have a strong tendency to think very much in terms of shields at the beginning of the game. If you use your money wisely (for example partly rushbuild warriors instead of building them slowly with your small shield production), then martial law makes your people happy and you can concentrate on trade rich areas (more trade arrows, then more science and more gold).
(also read Xin Yu's size five for that purpose).
2) I strongly agree with Chow Yub Fat: factories are great, but not ASAP (don't forget pollution either, if you build them before HD).
SG
Seems at least YOU agree with my calculations. I salute you.

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[Everyman]

Rush building decisions take on greater import in the early and middle game. By the end game, your coffers should be overflowing and you should be spending your money anyway. Since factories and space ship parts are built in the end game (in most cases) I will rush-build them at my pleasure -- I can afford to do that because since the game is in hand, the negative consequences are few.

In the early and middle game, rush-build decisions are premised on whether the benefit I receive from having a unit, building, or wonder several turns early is worth the cost.

For example, I find that at Deity level, Hanging Gardens and Michealangelo provide such immediate and far-reaching benefits that I will rush-build them as soon as they are within striking distance.

Another example is whether I should rush-build a temple in a city in chaos. If I find that the benefits of having a productive city outweigh the costs, then I will rush-build a temple. If not, then I will consider other means of keeping the citizens happy.
[This message has been edited by Everyman (edited January 11, 2001).]

[Smokey tha nuke man]

rushbuild a unit if:
1.an enmy unit is two turns away
2. your rich and don't want to wait for a really expensive unit (armor, nuke, battleship, etc.)
rushbuild an improvement when:
it is absolutlynecesary (city in civil disorder, buy a temple).
Rushbuild wonders if it is very important to your stategy and the ai is going to beat you to it

in general, rushbuild factories, manufacturing plants, and power plants in cities with 5 or ,or prtoduction in a cize 3 city or bigger.

[Strategicking/A-Team]

The decision to "rush " build should be aided by decisions made when determining your city placement. I use the 5 factor or 10 factor principle. I space my citys so that they can get up to 10 resource production or at worse 5. Then for maximum efficency useing level buying meaning if you want to build a settler and have 10 resource production, buy an archer or a diplomat or explorer (30 resources) then switch to a settler. You must really explore your need to complete the unit with total gold and they must be overwhelming to do it.

[Scouse Gits]

La Fayette, Merci Monsieur - but what's to disagree with? A sound strategy deserves support.
Just a note on Treasury - in my games I count myself lucky if I have much more than 100g in the coffers before SoL & Fundy!!!!
Yes this makes you vulnerable, just don't let them diplos get near!


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

[EOL]

In the early game I like to buy improvements as soon as possible so I can get back to producing carvans, settlers whatever. If I'm short of cash that might mean
going for a cheaper building and then switching production (nice not to waste those shields too ). Always try and keep back 50-100g for Barb bribing.

"Perhaps we should adjust the tax rate, sire." , sigh!

Usually don't have to worry about being bribed, tend to be at peace/allied with everyone at this stage.

Later on, I buy factories if allows a city to produce 20+ shields (25 is better) before Hoover's. After Hoover's the credit cards out for all the larger cities. Sometimes rush-build supermarkets in smaller cities to grow them more quickly (esp if not in Demo), if I'm not very far ahead of the AI.

Rush build man. plants to get over 70 shields. Howitzer every turn from a few cities can soon bring the AI to its knees .

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"One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make sure it is worth watching."

[Hawkman]

There is always a tradeoff to consider when rush buying, but too much analysis will detract from the game (fun), so I use some guidelines. For factories, I'm willing to spend up to 200 gold on the buy, and more if I have lots of gold and can buy every factory. I don't like buying at two turns away, because only one turn is saved - the cost for saving one turn is usually more than I'm comfortable with.

Caravans that are used for trade are not good buy candidates, it takes away from the profit. Caravans built for wonders are good candidates, but only if I'm being pressed by another civ.

You guys have some good rules. Thanks, I'll try some of them.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by SlowThinker (post 5)
Cost of 1 shield (my eperience only):
unit: 2+({residual shield cost}/20)

So the full cost (cost of all the shields) is
2*{residual shield cost} + {residual shield cost}^2 / 20
(the result is rounded down)

Edit: residual shield cost - I mean the number of shields to be bought
Edit: error in the formula

[SlowThinker]

double post

[Xin Yu]

The cost for buying n shields of production in unit is
n(n+40)/20, rounded down. Double if there is zero shields accrued.