OCC Fortnight 3rd Edition - Results and Logs

[Smash]

It was a good plan to irrigate that wheat first and get some nons.I thought about it then jumped in.As a result,I had very slow early growth and development.

[John-SJ]

"John-SJ, I agree with smash that 220AD is not too late. You'd probably still be able to make the late 1800s."

You might be right, except...well...I didn't mention one other *minor* detail. I had been at republic for a *lot* of turns, when I realized that my population had just turned over to 4. That's when i FINALLY realized that I had forgotten all about WLTPD up to 7. I was frustrated enough that I quit the game and deleted the saves. I need to remember to play this when my mind isn't distracted.

John-SJ

[Tom DeMille]

I notice that both smash and hoss founded their cities right away. I waited for a few turns, irrigating the corn to bump up my short term food production. This was in anticipation of building a settler (although it now strikes me that the settler himself could have irrigated it first thing. Oh well). As it turned out, I found a wandering nomad 2 turns before my settler was complete, so I took the 50% penalty and switched production to collosus.

The other reason I waited to found the city was since there was a hut right beside my starting location, I figured there would be others nearby, so I went looking for NONE units. I ended up getting a whole bunch of archers, which really started to irritate me. I only got 1 tech from hut hunting and about 10 NONE units ("oh great, another archer" I muttered to myself a couple of times).

I'll be curious to see how many others delayed founding their city three or four turns.

edit: John-SJ, I agree with smash that 220AD is not too late. You'd probably still be able to make the late 1800s.
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited February 19, 2000).]

[Paul]

Well done, Tom. I landed in 1725. I just made a comparison table for this game. Here's my log:


4000 BC Hut: Horsemen
3900 BC Hut: Archers
Athens
3750 BC Huts: 50 gold, wandering nomad
3700 BC Alphabet
3600 BC Phalanx
3550 BC Hut: Archers
3250 BC Code of Laws
Hut: Archers
3100 BC Romans: peace; they refuse alliance, don't trade science and don't pay tribute
2900 BC Vikings: same as Romans
2800 BC Monarchy, revolution
Romans: trade Map Making; give Warrior Code; alliance; share maps; no gift
Vikings: trade Currency
2650 BC Gov: Monarchy
2550 BC Mongols: trade Masonry; give 3 techs; alliance; share maps; no gift
2350 BC Vikings: tribute 25 gold
2200 BC Writing
2150 BC Barbarian Leader: 150 gold
Mongols: gift 25 gold
2000 BC Colossus
1950 BC Romans: share maps
Mongols: share maps
Vikings: tribute: 50 gold
1750 BC Trade
1600 BC Library
Hut: Chariot
1500 BC Romans: trade Horseback Riding; gift 25 gold
1400 BC Mysticism
1200 BC Hut: Horsemen
Aztecs: alliance; share maps; gift 50 gold
Romans: gift 25 gold
Mongols: gift 25 gold
1150 BC Temple
1100 BC Construction
1050 BC Zulus: trade Iron Working; peace
950 BC Romans: gift 50 gold
Vikings: tribute 50 gold
Mongols: gift 50 gold
850 BC Marketplace
Americans: trade Pottery, Seafaring, Wheel; alliance; share maps; gift 150 gold
825 BC Americans: trade Literacy
Hut: Chariot
Romans: share maps
Zulus: tribute 50 gold
Aztecs: share maps
Mongols: share maps
775 BC Aztecs: gift 25 gold
725 BC Republic, revolution
Gov: Republic
Start WLTCD, size 5
700 BC Colosseum
625 BC Romans: gift 25 gold
Aztecs: gift 50 gold
Mongols: cancel alliance
Americans: gift 50 gold
600 BC Aqueduct
Beads caravan (demanded) to Boston: 202 gold
575 BC Mathematics
Coal caravan (not demanded) to Trondheim: 98 gold
550 BC Harbor
525 BC End WLTCD, size 12
Sold Colosseum
475 BC Astronomy
450 BC Americans: trade Medicine, Philosophy; gift 100 gold
Romans: gift 50 gold
Hides (demanded) to Samarkand: 288 gold
400 BC Engineering
325 BC Aztecs: gift 25 gold
300 BC Vikings: share maps
Zulus: share maps
Mongols: share maps
275 BC Copernicus' Observatory
250 BC Barbarian Leader: 150 gold
200 BC Sanitation
Gold (not demanded) to Tenochtitlan: 202 gold
Silk (not demanded) to Tenochtitlan: 202 gold
175 BC University
Hides (not demanded) to Samarkand: 158 gold
Romans: gift 50 gold
Aztecs: gift 25 gold
Americans: gift 25 gold
Sold Temple
150 BC Shakespeare's Theatre
Barbarian Leader: 150 gold
100 BC Sewer System
Start WLTCD, size 12
75 BC Banking
25 BC Romans: gift 100 gold
Aztecs: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 100 gold
1 AD University
20 AD Vikings: alliance; share maps; gift 75 gold
End WLTCD, size 17
40 AD Theory of Gravity
Gold (not demanded) to Zimbabwe: 138 gold
60 AD Bank
80 AD Bridge Building
Romans: gift 50 gold
Aztecs: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 50 gold
140 AD Invention
160 AD Romans: gift 150 gold
Aztecs: gift 50 gold
200 AD Democracy, revolution
Zulus: tribute 50 gold
Mongols: tribute 100 gold
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 50 gold
220 AD Gov: Democracy
240 AD Isaac Newton' College
260 AD Gunpowder
280 AD Barbarian Leader: 150 gold
300 AD Chemistry
340 AD Explosives
Romans: trade Navigation; gift 100 gold
Vikings: gift 100 gold
Aztecs: gift 100 gold
Americans: gift 50 gold
360 AD Engineers
Barbarian Leader: 150 gold
380 AD Economics
400 AD Engineers
Aztecs: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 50 gold
420 AD Metallurgy
440 AD Stock Exchange
Romans: gift 100 gold
460 AD Physics
500 AD Magnetism
520 AD Vikings: gift 50 gold
Aztecs: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift Feudalism
540 AD Electricity
580 AD Refrigeration
600 AD Supermarket
620 AD Steam Engine
Aztecs: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 100 gold
Start WLTPD, size 15
660 AD Railroad
680 AD Romans: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 100 gold
700 AD Industrialization
Wine Caravan (demanded) to Tenochtitlan: 237 gold
740 AD Corporation
780 AD Refining
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Americans: gift 100 gold
800 AD Darwin's Voyage: Combustion, Steel
820 AD Automobile
Americans: gift 50 gold
Vikings: gift 50 gold
840 AD Superhighways
860 AD Electronics
880 AD End WLTPD, size 24
900 AD Chivalry
940 AD Mass Production
980 AD Leadership
Aztecs: trade Conscription; gift 150 gold
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Romans: gift 100 gold
1020 AD Engineers
Tactics
1060 AD Machine Tools
Alpine Troops
Silk Freight (demanded) to Washington: 678 gold
1080 AD Miniaturization
Coal Freight (demanded) to Tenochtitlan: 730 gold
1100 AD Sold Sewer System
1120 AD Computers
1140 AD Research Lab
1160 AD Mobile Warfare
1180 AD Sold Aqueduct
1200 AD Robotics
1220 AD Factory
1240 AD Flight
Solk Freight (demanded) to Zimbabwe: 208 gold
1260 AD Power Plant
1280 AD Radio
1340 AD Manufacturing Plant
Advanced Flight
1380 AD Rocketry
1420 AD Space Flight
Vikings: trade Atomic Theory; cancel alliance
1440 AD Apollo Program
1460 AD Aztecs: cancel alliance
Coal Freight (demanded) to Tenochtitlan: 355 gold
Copper Freight (not demanded) to Tenochtitlan: 142 gold
1480 AD Plastics
1540 AD Nuclear Fission
1590 AD Nuclear Power
Vikings: sneak attack
1620 AD 15 Structurals
1630 AD Laser
1670 AD Superconductor
1680 AD 6 Components
1710 AD Fusion Power
3 Modules
Launch Spaceship
1713 AD Communism
1715 AD Recycling
1717 AD Mass Transit
Environmentalism
1718 AD Solar Plant
Sold Power Plant
Vikings: peace
1722 AD Labor Union
1724 AD United Nations
1725 AD Arrive on Alpha Centauri

[This message has been edited by Paul (edited May 06, 2000).]

[Hoss]

I was just reading through these logs as well as earlier ones and noticed that everyone built Copernicus before Shakespeare's except for me (not to be a pain, but Paul you switched it on your comparison table). How are you able to build a city up to size 12 without unhappiness if you don't have Shakes? I started having unhappy people at size 4. The only way I could have grown if I built Copernicus first would have been by upping lux to 40 or 50 percent, and then science would have suffered.

[Paul]

We get to size 12 by building a colosseum. And sorry about switching your Cop/ST in my table; I'm just so used to seeing them in this order that I didn't look too close at your log.

[Tom DeMille]

Yes Hoss, if you look carefully at the build order you will see that we build a temple and colosseum close to the time we switch to republic. You then up luxuries and have WLTCD to size 12. You will usually find at this point that you need to keep luxuries at 20%, and that you will have a few more happy people than discontent. So sell your colosseum and save the gold (you won't be growing anymore until after Shakespeare's Theatre is built).

Why not build Shakespeare's first and save not having to waste time on building the colosseum? Because you will be able to build the colosseum several turns faster, and be up to size 12 several turns earlier. That outways the fact you have a now useless building.

edit: Paul, two observations on our logs. With the trireme available for quick transport, I decided to build the caravans right after the library. My trade routes were established very early which I think was a big benifit.

I finally see the light on delaying the factory until later in the game. I built mine early, wanting to get up to 25 production so I could build a caravan every two turns. This finally hurt me in this game, since there was a lot of engineering work to be done. My engineers spent far too much time fighting pollution instead of mining and railroading a few hills. As a result, I was totally unprepared for space flight (with 53 production). From now on, I'll make it a point to not build my factory until all my tiles have been transformed to my satisfaction.
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited February 21, 2000).]

[Paul]

Yes, that's why I like to delay the factory. Even so, I still needed to build a third engineer to get my land improved in time for the spaceship. When I compared our logs I saw that you had a better start and that I caught up later in the game. Unfortunately not enough to beat you to AC , but it is nice to see someone else do better on an OCC comparison game for a change.

[Tom DeMille]

Ah, a third engineer would have been just the ticket. Paul, I notice in my summary that I gave you the wrong date for turning size 12. It should be -800. -150 was when I started a new WLTCD to get up to size 16.

I used my settler/engineers very poorly in this game. I wasted a lot of time mining the gold mountain, for a gain of only one shield (this was my settler's 1st project). I also wasted several of my engineers' turns trying to convert a hill into plains. They never ended up getting it done, because pollution kept poping up. When spaceflight came along, I had 6 untouched hills. Definitely room for improvement.

[Paul]

I already found it very strange that you got to 12 so late and still managed to get to AC in 1705; I guess I should have checked your complete log to see if it was the wrong date.

[Donkeychoker]

First of all I want to say thanks to everyone who participates in this. I don't have time to play much and I live vicariously through your logs and I learn through the table Paul takes the time to post on his site. I was wondering if folks might not mind throwing what version they're using into the log, as well. Thanks either way and please keep it up.

[Tom DeMille]

You'll have an easier time with v242, and I think most of us here use that version. With Multiplayer Gold, the AIs are a lot less friendly. So instead of being able to ally with all the AI civs (like I managed in this game), you'll be lucky to not have them all at war with you.

[Smash]

I used the single player version and do plan a "retry" with the MGE.

since this was a scenario perhaps I should mention it was deity level

looks like theres' a new kid on the block Paul.

[Paul]

comparison table updated with Tom's corrected size 12 date.
[This message has been edited by Paul (edited May 06, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

No prize for me ... seems I share the booby with Smash - good company anyway

Just read the thread more carefully, Well done, Tom! I had estimated Paul's 1725 landing, but never expected it to be substantially trimmed.

v2.42 - deity
1863 landing - guess that's no banana!

I simply cannot instill sufficient urgency into my middle game - the medieval period drags on forever - I shall have to force myself to research in 5 at a loss rather than 6 at a gain.

Monarchy -2850
Republic -325
Democracy 220

Colossus -1650
Shakespeare's -250
Copernicus' 60
Darwin 660
Isaac's 880
Apollo 1800

Trade -1650
Construction -1250
Invention 100
Sanitation 940
Refrigeration 1220
Automobile 1560
Space Flight 1798

Trade route#1 -625
Trade route#2 -625
Trade route#3 -500

Gold:
Trade routes: 2174
Huts + Barbarians: 525
Tribute: 6292 including 17 from death of Vikings

I was short of freights for the SS, but fortunately the war chest was well stocked.

Sten, it took me ages to realize that the tech tree was open - and then I didn't know what to do with it!!!

Great map great game - might even replay it tons of enjoyment even if I have come in last - again!


Scouse Gits rueing the day they played as Rue Paul --
4000BC
OK, Sten, I see the coal in the right place, but ...
moves Chariot - Gold!, Silk - I can build - first tip this hut ...
another Chariot that can just catch the boat ...
Ahhh - Wheat not a bad start and a second hut - have to delay founding until its tipped
3950 - Another Chariot - maybe I should go for an OCC Conquest ... Liverpool founded
3900 - Hut Wandering Tribe (None) - I must have a lousy love life
3750 - Hut 25g, Hut Currency
3700 - Warrior
3600 - Warrior
3550 - Hut Alpabet
3400 - Code of Laws
3350 - Warrior, Start Colossus
3200 - Obliging Barbarian Trireme makes Trireme Veteran
3000 - Hut Archers (None), Meet Vikings - Peace - refuse to trade Knowledge because ...
2950 - Monarchy (the first time I have ever counted beakers exactly), Revolution
2950 - Vikings trade Code of Laws for Writing, Warrior Code for Map Making, give them Currency & Monarchy for Maps - they are so weak - I think I feel some mayhem coming on ...
2900 - Hut Feudalism
2850 - Government turns to MONARCHY, Trireme finally fit again
2750 - Bash Vikings - fortify on adjacent mountain
2650 - Vikings hurl themselves to destruction
2550 - Hut Archers (None)
2500 - Vikings hurl themselves to destruction
2450 - Chariot (Vet) destroys Viking Civilisation - 17 gold plundered - that was fun!
2400 - Hut Horseback Riding
2200 - Hut 50g
2150 - Find Aztecs - peace - gift CoL, CB & Monarchy for maps - see Mongols Oh Goody
2000 - Hut Horseman, Find Romans - gift BW & Writing for maps
1950 - Hut Barbarian Horse - destroyed
1850 - Romans in alliance, but no money, Aztecs Worshipful, but no alliance
1800 - Mysticism
1650 - COLOSSUS, Hut TRADE
1500 - Library, Hut Iron Working - Barbarians at the gate - two killed one going for my coal mine
1450 - coal mine destroyed
1350 - get Masonry and 25g from Romans
1300 - Beads Caravan built
1250 - get CONSTRUCTION and 25g from Romans
1200 - Literacy, Mongols offer 100g for peace - happy to oblige
1100 - Roman maps
1000 - Romans 100g
0975 - Americans offer 150g for peace - MWHC is slipping
0950 - Zulus - get Pottery, The Wheel, 150g, maps and alliance!!!
0900 - Horseman killed by Barbarians
0850 - Romans 50g
0800 - allies - nothing
0750 - Temple
0700 - PHILOSOPHY - MEDICINE
0675 - Romans Polytheism; Zulus 25g
0650 - more Barbarians coming calling
0625 - Coal & Silk neither required to Washington 80g each, Zulus 25g
0550 - Americans 25g
0525 - Barbarians to the South, North & East - looks bad for the kid ...
0500 - Hides to Rome unwanted 88g
0475 - Mathematics
0425 - Romans 25g; Zulus 50g; Aztecs The Republic; Revolution
0350 - Barbarian Leader 150g; Start WLTanarchistD
0325 - REPUBLIC
0275 - Sell Temple
0250 - SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE
0225 - Romans 50g; Zulus Engineering & 50g
0175 - Aqueduct
0125 - Romans Seafaring & 50g; Aztecs Banking & Maps
0100 - Harbour
0050 - WLTCD stops at size 11 (Trireme at sea)
0025 - Romans 100g; Zulus 50g (now Icy!);

+----------------------------------------------+
| In this the First Year of Our Lord, Mighty   |
| Consul Rue Paul has decreed that this humble |
| scribe should describe to the waiting world  |
| of Aployton the wondrous state of our in-    |
| comparable city of Liverpool.  As it is      |
| written, so let it be ...                    |
|                                              |
| Liverpool, size 11 population 660,000        |
|  Food 22; Trade 62; Tax 12g; Science 75      |
|  Tax Rate 2.0.8 Researching Invention (0 in) |
|  Trade routes Washington 6; Washington 6 &   |
|  Rome 6.                                     |
|  A fifth Food Caravan will be produced this  |
|  year and one of our remaining two Warriors  |
|  will be sacrificed to make the Sixth that   |
|  we need to observe the Stars.               |
|  Our glorious NONE army currently comprises  |
|  Two Archers, Three Veteran Chariots and a   |
|  noble Settler without whos offices we must  |
|  surely have failed.  Our Veteran Trireme    |
|  is Tenochtitlan bound with a Gold caravan.  |
+----------------------------------------------+

0001 - Astronomy
0060 - COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY; Zulus 50g; Americans alliance for war with Mongols, 150g
0100 - Romans cancel alliance; Marketplace; INVENTION; Gold to Tenochtitlan 106g
0140 - Zulus 50g, Aztecs alliance for declaring war on Romans
0160 - Americans Maps
0180 - Bank
0200 - Democracy, Revolution
0220 - DEMOCRACY attained
0260 - Barbarians to the North; Zulus 50g, Americans 75g
0300 - Bridge Building
0320 - Aztecs 25g, Americans 75g
0380 - Navigation; Aztecs 25g, Americans 100g, Zulus 50g
0420 - Barbarian Leader 150g - no more Barbarian Threat
0440 - Zulus 50g, Aztecs 25g, Americans 50g
0480 - Physics
0520 - Beads to Tenochtitlan 112g, Coal to Tenochtitlan 280g - serendipity Coal demanded just this turn!
0540 - Steam Engine; Americans 50g, Zulus 50g
0600 - Zulus 50g
0640 - Railroad
0660 - DARWIN'S VOYAGE - University, Theory of Gravity; Aztecs Gunpowder + 50g, Zulus 50g, Americans 50g
0680 - Barbarians in the North - elephants this time
0740 - Chemistry; Aztecs 50g, Zulus 50g, Americans 50g
0780 - Mongol attack & both Americans & Zulus declare war on them! Science dives from 4 turns to 6 turns for no reason - trade routes not changed!
0820 - Aztecs 150g, Zulus 100g,
0860 - Explosives
0880 - SIR ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE
0900 - Zulus 50g, Americans 100g
0920 - Silk (unwanted) to Tenochtitlan 86g
0940 - University built, SANITATION
0980 - Wine to Texcoco 188g; Zulus 50g, Americans 50g
1000 - Magnetism
1080 - Aztecs 75g, Zulus 50g, Americans 100g
1100 - Metalurgy; Americans - Economics
1120 - Zulus - Industrialisation + 50g
1140 - Electricity
1160 - Science dropped from 2 turns to 4 turns with no chnage in the city or trade routes!!
1180 - Aztecs 75g, Zulus - Monotheism, Americans 50g
1200 - More Barbarians (Crusaders) to the North
1220 - REFRIGERATION
1240 - Supermarket; Aztecs 150g, Zulus 50g, Americans 50g
1300 - The Corporation; Aztecs 150g, Zulus 50g, Americans 50g
1320 - Sewer System
1340 - Barbarian Raiding Party (Knights) from lake to East! Start WLTPD @ 11
1360 - Wine to Texcoco 192g; Americans 100g
1380 - Steel; Aztecs maps
1420 - Zulus 50g, Americans 50g
1460 - Refining
1480 - Stock Exchange
1500 - Aztecs 25g, Zulus 50g, Americans 50g
1520 - Combusion
1540 - Aztecs 25g, Americans 100g
1550 - WLTPD stops @ 21
1560 - AUTOMOBILE
1570 - SuperHighway
1580 - Electronics; Aztecs 50g, Zulus 50g, Americans 100g
1600 - Conscription
1610 - Wine to Tenochtitlan 255g
1620 - Mass Production; Americans 100g
1630 - Mass Transit
1640 - Chivalry
1650 - Zulus 100g
1660 - Leadership; Americans 100g
1680 - Tactics
1690 - Aztecs 25g, Americans 150g
1700 - Machine Tools
1720 - Miniaturisation; Aztecs 25g, Zulus 100g, Americans 100g
1740 - Computers
1750 - Research Lab; Aztecs 25g, Americans 50g
1752 - Atomic Theory; Silk to Zimbabwe 175g
1756 - Nuclear Fission; Aztecs 50g, Americans take Monarchy give 0
1758 - Americans 150g
1760 - Nuclear Power
1762 - Factory; Aztecs 50g, Americans 50g
1764 - Hydro Plant; The Laser
1768 - Flight; Aztecs 50g, Americans 100g
1772 - Wine to Calixtlahuaca 117g
1774 - Radio; Americans 50g
1780 - Advanced Flight
1782 - Americans 100g
1786 - Mobile Warfare
1788 - Aztecs 25g, Americans 100g
1792 - Rocketry
1794 - Aztecs 25g, Americans 100g
1798 - SPACE FLIGHT
1800 - APOLLO PROGRAM; Production reaches 80 (Serendipity not good planning!); Aztecs 25g, Americans 200g
1806 - SSS#3; Plastic; Wine to Tlaxcala 312g; Aztecs 50g, Americans 100g
1808 - SSS#4; Barbarian Leader 150g
1810 - SSS#5; Superconductor
1822 - SSS#11
1828 - SSM#3
1832 - SSC#2; Fusion Power; Sell Research Lab
1840 - SSC#6
1848 - SSS#15 - LAUNCH (1863)
1849 - start WLTPD @ 21
1854 - WLTPD stops @ 26
1855 - Recycling
1856 - Recycling Center
1859 - Espionage
1861 - Wine to Antium 103g
1863 - LAND AC
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited February 23, 2000).]