What do you trade when nobody wants anything?

[Jim W]

In this present game, I find myself on an island. After having explored it, I have five cities on it, as many as it will hold. The biggest problem is that Only two of them ever have goods to trade that any of the rest want, and some have goods that nobody in the world wants.

So how can one build up any trade in a situation like this? In previous games, I've traded in desperation with people who didn't demand items, and occasionally got results like +0. Not the path to riches and glory, for sure.

Any good suggestions?

Jim W

[finbar]

Trading with another Civ, you should get something for the goods, even if they're not demanded. It all adds up. As does the science boost. On the other hand, you could put some caravans to sleep waiting for Wonders to build.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[Smash]

Patience.You must lay the foundation before you build the 1st.2nd.3rd etc floors.

Get a better government.Republic is what you need.

Grow your cities ASAP.+0 will get better once your cities and the receiving city have some time to develop.A demanded caravan will give the same ROUTE #s(+?) as a non demanded.Only effects the one time bonus.

Build markets.Then banks etc.

This is the type of situation where self trading can be more valuable early on.If you can get your capitol to size 12 quick then that city will be the best "trade arrow" city in the game.

Perfect setup for an isolated perfectionist game.

[Scouse Gits]

Jim - this happens frequently.

1) You can save the caravan for the next wonder on your list.
2) Make it a food caravan to assist the growth of another city - perhaps to boost a Science City so it makes more beakers.
3) If your freight has a commodity (coal/oil/uranium) that is likely to be demanded; store it away for a future bonus.
4) Send it on the next boat - but choose a large AI city, some distance away on another continent. If the receiving city is in Republic or Democracy, the bonus can be reasonable.
5) Send it with other caravans to a city where you have a demanded commodity. Pop the first (wanted) freight in and see if the city's demand list changes........well sometimes it happens..........
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SG (2)

[Adam Smith]

Need to know a bit more about your situation in order to offer useful advise.

What year are you in?
What civs are you playing against?
Aggressive expansionist civs such as the Mongols and Zulus are not worth the trouble to trade with, while rational perfectionist civs such as the Egyptians, Babylonians, or Chinese make great partners.
What government are you in?
Moving from despotism to monarchy or republic will boost your trade.
What government are your potential trading partners in?
Moving from despotism to monarchy or republic will boost their trade and hence yours. If they dont have the government techs, and you want to trade badly enough, exchange knowledge or give them the techs they need.
What techs do you have?
Obtaining certain technologies will often change the commodities supplied or demanded.
What techs do they have?
A civ that does not have the Trade tech does not supply or demand any goods. You can open up markets by exchanging knowledge or giving them trade.
How large are your cities?
How large are their cities?
What commodities do your cities produce?
What commodities do their cities demand?
How many existing trade routes are there from your cities?
How many existing trade routes are there to their cities?
Are you able to exchange maps or locate cities?
IIRC, an AI city will not appear on the trade menu until you at least have contact with that AI. Trading maps is essential to opening markets.
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Old posters never die.
They.j.u.s.t..f..a..d..e...a...w...a...y...
[This message has been edited by Adam Smith (edited September 08, 2000).]

[kcbob]

quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith on 09-08-2000 08:57 AM What techs do you have? Obtaining certain technologies will often change the commodities supplied or demanded.

I was going to say this very thing. I thought it warranted being in a stand alone list. The commodities your cities produce will change as the game progresses. Keep an eye on it.

What I didn't know was that this was tied to technologies. Thanks, AS.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[Ribannah]

AI cities will appear on the trade list (as well as the find city list) as soon as;

(a) they are on the map of your known world, or
(b) they have built a wonder.

Occasionally I've seen cities appear on the list without either a or b, but I don't know the cause.

Try to exchange maps with the AI tribes. For that, you need to have discovered Map Making, and the AI should be Worshipful (deity level).


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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[DaveP]

Sounds like you're talking about the trade routes, not the bonus. As Smash said, demand only affects the bonus, so go ahead and set up your routes whether the commodities are in demand or not. I know it doesn't seem worthwhile to set up a +0 trade route, but they have nowhere to go but up and since you control both ends they can go up very quickly.

Build roads, both to increase trade and to connect your cities. Get bridge building, if necessary, to make those connections. Build trade improvements in all your cities. Grow them all. As the game progresses those routes will grow. I've had routes that started at +0 and ended at +30 or higher between cities as little as 5 squares apart (and that means I was getting over 60 since both cities were collecting).

Dave

[Sten Sture]

It also helps to know what squares an AI city will be working so that it generates raw trade arrows. The AI will generally work fish, wheat, and then whales; but rarely wine, silk, spice, and almost never gold. I try to find a larger perfectionist AI city on a different continent with a river or two, and at least a whale and some roads. Then I send all of my caravans to that city unless there is a similar city that demands my commodity. Every trade route you set up with that city increases the value of subsequent routes (I think) up to the third route. A size 6 AI city with a whale and some roads in Republic on a different continent will generate some decent recurring trade revenue. I usually estimate +2 for the first route, +3 for both when the second arrives, and +4 or +5 for the lot when the third gets there.

Open up the cheat some time, reveal the entire map and take a look at the AI cities to see what squares they are working an how many raw trade arrows they generate. Get to know and recognize AI cities that will generate around 10 raw arrows in the early-ish stages of the game.

[Jim W]

quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith on 09-08-2000 08:57 AM Need to know a bit more about your situation in order to offer useful advise. What year are you in?

I apapreciate the list of things to look for. However, I am on an island, didn't manage to get built up to exploring off-island until sometime AD. When I did the first post I was at 1270 (@) AD, and I knew of two other foreign civs. This, plus occasional attacks by seaborne barbarians, prevented me from building a big trading fleet.

Furthermore, the two cities that I knew of were some distance away, such that I could probably build two or three caravans in the time it took to get one caravan over to them. What I ended up doing was building a caravan in a city, then a building or a military unit, so there was always a couple of caravans being built. If nobody wanted any of the goods the city had to offer, I would send off a food caravan to the capital to be used in Wonder-building.

I believe I have the greatest number of wonders of anybody, but I'm now moving into the 1800s, with Space Travel a possibility in the future, but not near enough in the future to be able to actually build a spaceship.

Having an island, with little worry about having to start a war in order to hold my territory, I went straight from Monarchy to Democracy.

Where was everybody else at? Lord knows.

My question was, originally, how do I efficiently trade among my own cities, which were the only ones available to me in the two millenia after I had discovered Trade?

The best answer, as I see it, is approximately what I did, using every city that couldn't trade anything to provide support for Wonder-building.

[Scouse Gits]

To obtain the maximum benefit from trade you really want to be looking overseas. I believe that Marco Polo's Embassy is a vastly underrated wonder. With the instant diplomatic access it offers to all civilisations, you are able to obtain maps. Once you know where people are located you can trade with them - and know about the commodity demands of their cities.

In the context of the game you are playing, I'm sure you did the right thing by using caravans to aid wonder building.
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SG (2)