space race with minimum cities-strategies-

[geofelt]

catullus started another thread about this, and I tried some games. It turns out to be a fun and challenging way to play civ. At chieftan, one city is not too hard, and one at prince can be done. One at king is possible, but hard, I think.(haven't done it yet) At deity, any nymber is hard, but with a fair starting position, I did it with three cities. This type of game is fun because it goes quickly. You are pitting your management skills against the brute power of the AI. The wonders you build will change. If you find a tribe in a goodie hut, you must disband or lose it asap. If you need to capture a city that overlaps yours, you must disband it. The AI likes to do this, and it will really hurt to have overlap by a rival at the end.
-------------------------------------------
As to strategy, build a science city, starting with colossus. At the end, each city must produce a net of 80 shields. If the terrain does not permit this, you must terraform.(there is likely to be time to do this) Stay out of war, and build defenses that will keep the AI out of yout city perimeter.

[catullus]

Hail to you, geo!
I'm really impressed.
Now, what were the game settings? (map size, opponents, barbarians, land mass, form and age). What opponents did you get? How did the map look like (never really like you expect from settings), all grass and hills? How many continents? What was your trade strategy? I have this terrible feeling that my own trade strategy can be improved a lot.

C.

[Adam Smith]

Congratulations, Geofelt.
I usually play with 10 cities and go for an early finish, but I cant wait to try it with fewer, especially if the game goes fast.

[DanS]

geofelt: I too have done it with 3 cities on a small map (quite interesting), but maybe I ought to ratchet up the size of the map to see if I get slaughtered.

[geofelt]

Talking about the deity game, I used a small map with 7 civs and minimal barbarians. A key item is the defensibility of your patch. You would like mountains in a bottleneck, but of course you don't know for a while. As maps get smaller, you get mountains for defense, and there is less room for rivals to grow. I started with colossus, and built the science wonders. If I had nothing productive to do, I built tons of food caravans to use at the end. I used these to surround my cities to keep the AI from stealing techs at the end. I build the great wall, it seemed the only way to keep from having to fight wars. I had an open area where a city could be built to overlap mine, so I camped a diplomat there; it seemed to work. I wish I had an exact table of space ship requirements and speed. I built three modules four each components and 21 structuals. taking 13.7 years with fusion. I built seti to kep it away from the ai, and gl was essential. I set up foreign trade routes to the science city, and three routes each in the other two. I built university in only the science city. It seems strange to not worry about missing hoover dam, but I built mass transit, factory, recycling. I delayed researching space flight as long as possible, then rushed solar plants and built mfg plants. Each city produced 85-120 shields. I built defenses(sam,MI's, a fighter) before starting apollo program. During the space race, you can't divert production to fight the inevitable war. Early on, I sent a dip and a caravan to each civ to establish an embassy. I stayed in monarchy most of the time. The science was ok, and support was minimal. After recycling was built I boosted the population in democracy so that each square was in production. Many mixed terrain types will work, but the key is to figure out how to wall out the other civs. You can't have them walking over your productive squares and getting production below 80.
I would be interested in other experiences.

[Ming]

After reading the threads... I had to try it with one city at Deity... It was rough, but after 4 tries... BINGO!

The ship landed in 2015 (Three years before the Zulus)
Small World
Restless tribes
Resetting Civs
7 Civs
Everything else normal

Space ship was 15 structures
3 fuels/prop
One of each Module

Nine Wonders
Hanging Gardens (nothing else to build, but it helped early)
Shakespeare's Theatre - most important one.. no happiness problems ever
Coperinicus's and Isaac Newton - you got to have these, or plan on stealing science till you are blue in the face.
Workshop - it helped
United Nations - key, but they all attack anyway
Darwin's - it was there
Great Library - gave me the little ones
And had to had Apollo.

Until the end, my entire military was NON...
Bribed every unit I could. I didn't want to waste production.
I had a good choke point to hold everybody else. Didn't fight early at all... Made friends and demanded tribute from everybody. It worked for a long time. Then the gravy train ended. After that, it was barb kings. I only built 2 caravans, and bribed one.. to get my three trade routes. Built diplos and spies like crazy.
It was fun...
Now to try it on a medium world. IT CAN BE DONE!

[Bird]

Ming: Congratulations. That is incredibly impressive. I assume you were able to find a good spot to settle pretty quickly. Also, based on your first three attempts, was there a consistent obstacle to success that must be avoided, or did it vary depending on the circumstances?

[Ming]

Bad starting positions was indeed the limiting factor. I did use the goody hut strategy while searching for a GREAT city location. If you are only going to have one... IT BETTER BE GOOD! One of the games I had a great starting position right from the start. But, no source of revenue made it difficult to stay with the AI's. In the game I did it in, I had lots of huts before finally starting my city. So, with the non units, I was supreme early. I used that to demand tribute early and often. Many of the wonders I just bought. When the gravy train ended (it's tough to stay supreme when you only have one city) I started to slow down, but had a big enough science lead to go for the win. Superconductor was the key. If the Zulus had gotten it before the year 2000, I would never have been able to beat them. Once they got it, their ship launched the next turn, with an 8.3 year eta. My ship was already gone, and just barely beat them.
I really like playing it on a small world. So even though I said I'm going to try a medium world... I won't. I want to see how fast it can be done a small world. I wasted a ton of time in the mid game. Now I know what I'm doing.
It was fun and different. Highly recommended if you are bored. They don't take very long.

[geofelt]

Congratulations Ming!! I have been having trouble with one city at emperor, I guell I'll have to try harder.
A couple of questions:
No collossus?
What government? early republic?
How did you stay peaceful without the great wall? Did being supreme with NON units do it?
How many moves did you spend before founding the city?

[Ming]

Geofelt...
Monarchy and straight to Democracy. I never left Democracy after that.
Colossus was a thought only (it expires far to early), given the choice, hanging gardens worked better for me. My city was growing fast. I'll probably take colossus next time... depending on the situation.
I didn't build my first city until about 3600...
I wanted to make sure it was a good location, and I started in the middle of a four pattern of goody huts.
Being supreme early made the great wall a waste of time. I just built city walls for a lot less time. People wanted to be my friend.. and I started on the left edge of the board. The Zulus were screaning me from the rest of the world, and they became the killer civ. The Zulus and I fought off and on with no real losses... I had a good choke point. I hope that answers your questions.
I'm going to try again, and I really doubt the same strategy will work, unless I have a similar starting position. As they say, play the cards you are dealt.

[geofelt]

I tried again at emperor, landing in 2012. I'll try deity next. It's like the four minute mile, once it's been done, the second time should be easier.
I used collossus/gl/krc/copernicus/Isaac-newton/UN/apollo. I am not certain UN was that helpful.
I went to republic and stayed there. It seems as good as democracy, and you get there earlier. KRC let me use oceans to get the science.
I did not have the best position. One end was open for settlement, so I positioned some spare dips there, and it seemed to work.
I did not find enough units to become supreme. Is there a trick to doing that?
I also had enough spare food caravans to surround my city and prevent theft of space science. --an essential tactic if you don't have a good way to choke off everything. It's funny to see a dozen spies trying to get to the city. I was concerned about them bribing a caravan to get in, but they never tried.

[catullus]

I bow my head in respect, Ming.
Never thought it would be possible.

Couple of points:
Having both Colossus and HG will yield 3 trade from each road under monarchy for a a long time. And Col does NOT expire early.
Workshop? Isn't that a bit expensive for a minimal army? Of course, upgrading NONE units (and especially the important NONE settler) can be done no other way.
UN: I did well without when I played 5 cities. Keeping the army at exactly right size, you're not seen as a threat, nor an easy piece of meat.
GL: Interesting. How many techs did you get? In my 5-city game, I always was way ahead, so I doubt it would have been worth the price.
No KRC? Why? Seems like a good deal for 1-city games.
Do you remember when you started to build the ship? I used one hundred years in a 1-city chieftain game. But that ship was larger than yours. I realized afterwards that a smaller and slower ship would have been faster overall from Apollo to planetfall.

C.

[Makeo]

I'm trying it right now. My thoughts at this stage are that my main goals are construction, medicine, sewer system, Democracy. I've built GL and have got lots of tech. I'm at the stage just before Railroad and am still no. 1 in science although falling fast. My caravans keep getting killed. I don't know if I'll do it on this try as my city site isn't that good.

[Ming]

As I said, it depends on the situation. My next try, I will see if Col and KRC make a big difference. You must understand that I had a high level of cash flow early in the game thanks to Tribute. I was buying wonders... As far as finding enough units... as I said, I started in a 4 pattern. Got a horse, archer, $25, and one science. Once you have seen 4, you know the pattern. My horse was off to the races... and I found many units. And Yes, The workshop is key for upgrading units if you don't want to have build any. I bribed one settler and with my second starting settler, that gave me 2 engineers late in the game to solve polution. Every turn, I got polution, every turn, two engineers removed it.

[Adam Smith]

Catullus, Ming:
The worth Great Library might depend on the situation. With five cities, you could probably build enough trade caravans to stay ahead, and so might not need GL. With just one city you probably couldnt build enough trade caravans, so GL would be much more valuable.

Questions:
When you site your one city, is it worth having ocean access so you can trade, or do you really need every square you can get for production?
Anybody interested in posting their one city games somewhere on this site?