Civ II Stinks

[Gatekeeper]

Everyone:

This topic post is a direct follow-up to my previous topic, "I Am Praying For a More Intelligent AI."

The subject line says it all.

And the AI Mongols are to blame. They take one-dimensional to the extreme. Even IRL, the bastards could negotiate. But, NNNNOOO. Not on Civ II. All they're there is big, dumb Neandertals.

"Give me money!"

"Give me The Wheel!"

"Your puny civilization is unworthy to make peace with us!"

Well, 'scuse me, Mr. One Dimensional AI Mongol bastard. You see, I have the "Kill Civilization" option at my command.

And yours just died. And with it, my regards for Civ II programming.

A very PO'd ...

CYBERAmazon

[DaveV]

This is not meant to rub salt in your wounds, but *any* AI civ will be very cooperative if they're afraid enough. If you have lots of troops on their continent, you'll see messages more like (my favorite):

"Have mercy on our humble and peaceloving civilization. We will give you all of our gold (6) and knowledge if you let us live in peace."

[Mao]

hehehe, Mongols getting on your nerves? That's why you can pick your AI opponents

[Scouse Gits]

CA: Don't be too hard on the game. Look around the World today - many of the conflicts are the result of one-dimensional attitudes.

Whether by accident or design Civ 2 does reflect much of real life. The one and only OCC game I played (It was Tom's wide World with the road along the South Pole) ended in me being described as "Whatever The Cruel" In the game I never touched anyone! However, in my more usual conquest game on large maps; I kill, sabotage city walls, destroy temples, laundries and massage parlours - and at the end of it all I am called "Whatever the Magnificent" You have to admit there is a ring of truth there!

I'm with you all the way in wanting a better game with CIV 3.
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SG (2)

[Ming]

Nice title to your thread

Yeah, the AI sucks... One can only hope for a better one in CivIII!

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

[Civ-wrecked]

I thought the AI civs were very benign . They always give a lot of warning signs before attacking and they always attack the same city and so it's trivial to set up a well-defended city as a target for their attacks.

[tonic]

Except that in OCC it's going to mean an expensive detour from your preparations for racing to AC. In OCC12 I got one turn of warning before the English nuked my city although with hindsight the subtler signs were not altogether absent.

One dimensional is indeed an apt description. In the group of civs you have made peace with, there is bound to be one on a pre-determined downward spiral in attitude, where cutting your losses by accepting war (particularly if it is not your next door neighbour) is preferable to insatiable appeasement.
[This message has been edited by tonic (edited July 14, 2000).]

[Fallen Angel Lord]

Heh, Looks like I'm just a AI in MP then, cause I just go rampaging everywhere and it usually works.

[Gatekeeper]

DaveV:

Don't worry about the salt — I usually rub some in just for the sake of it . I've seen that begging message more than once, but usually after I've built my empire and military up to the point where boredom sets in **L**. Also, the AI never shows that message to me until it has a single city left. Sheesh. Fine time for self-preservation to kick in.

It's partly my fault for being a perfectionist and not seeking war until the later stages of the game. Oh well. I probably should've been satisified with just wiping out the Mongols, but it left such a gaping physical hole in that particular game ... they were a massive, sprawling empire!

CYBERAmazon

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Mao:

What's really annoying is the fact that I picked the Mongols. I tried to counteract that by choosing the Chinese, too, but the former wiped out the latter by 1 A.D. Then I, as the Babylonians, was the only nation left in the natural expansion path of the Mongols (playing on the "Northern Hemisphere" map downloaded from Apolyton).

CYBERAmazon

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Scouse Gits:

True, very true. Maybe that's why I get so PO'd when the AI tears down what I build. Maybe it's too close to human nature **sigh**.

CYBERAmazon

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Ming:

Oops . Guess the Christian nightmare of an afterlife doesn't cut the batter as a topic post headline **L**.

CYBERAmazon

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Civ-wrecked:

I guess I don't bother much with setting up decoy and "military buster" cities when playing the AI. In fact, I rarely build fortresses, either, in a standard game. As much as I like to keep my strategies realistic, perhaps having few or no forts is unrealistic.

CYBERAmazon

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Fallen Angel Lord:

Hmm ... I see the Borg Queen has assimilated you to the AI's methods .

CYBERAmazon

[Gatekeeper]

jpk:

I won't walk away from Civ II ... too addicted for that course of action . However, I shall take advantage of some time away from the game to rant and rave to the masses **L**.

The AI seems to prize The Great Wall ... I'm usually building the Colossus in my capital city while the AI is building TGW at the same time. I'd rather have the former, because of trade and science benefits ... perhaps, however, that priority should change a bit, especially at the higher levels of gameplay.

Thanks for the map suggestions.

CYBERAmazon

[Carolus Rex]

I'm with you CYBERAmazon on the need for improved AI.

But, to go from there to flush Civ down the toilet is going too far [stern look]!

One word, multiplayer!

And to spice up SP, try one of the many challenges.

This game is still very much ALIVE and KICKING!

Carolus

[Gatekeeper]

Carolus Rex:

**hangs head** I'm guilty! Guilty as sin! I beseech you for your forgiveness . On a bit more serious note, multi-player sounds fascinating. But until I get a cable or ADSL connection to the Web, I won't be able to satisfy that curiosity, IMHO. A 56k connection isn't always stable enough, at least where I'm from.

CYBERAmazon

[finbar]

quote: Originally posted by CYBERAmazon on 07-15-2000 09:08 PM Carolus Rex: A 56k connection isn't always stable enough, at least where I'm from.

Give it a try. I'd reckon it's what the vast majority of people use to play.



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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[jpk]

CYBERAmazon:

If you really hate fighting neighbors, play on a 10,000 square map. Most of the time you will have either zero or one neighbor on your original continent. That allows you to develop the way you want.

For what it is worth I usually play on a cylindrical world 250 squares in circumference and 40 squares in height. I play with large land masses in a variety of sizes. Since I like rivers I play on a wet world. Before you give up on Civilization try this type of world.

While the AI civilizations are no different on this type of map, you can pretty much ignore them until you have time to build decent defenses.

Also consider building the Great Wall. It will really help your cities resist attacks and will help in keeping other civilizations at peace. Eventually they will all hate you, that is their nature. But the Great Wall postpones that day of reckoning.

[Ming]

Yeah... many people play at that "slow" speed. Just make sure the host is has the great connection, no problem