Barbarian oddity?

[Gatekeeper]

Smash, et al.:

My understanding is that barbarian units can appear pretty much anywhere, explored or not. The only thing that puts a kosher on that would be to have a civilization(s) expand into the "wild" areas, thus urbanizing and "yuppy-izing" them .

EST mentioned a barbarian-controlled city spawned a tank ... geez, I've never seen that. The strongest weapons the barbarians seem to get include artillery, calvary and conscripts. Nothing more. I mean, I've created barbarian howitzers and armor to take out a piss-poor placed AI city before ... but never have seen it happen "naturally."

CYBERAmazon

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Resistance is futile. Lower your shields and disable your weapons. You will be assimilated into the Borg Collective.

[finbar]

quote: <font size=1>Originally posted by Smash on 06-22-2000 04:47 PM</font> The LEADER defends the stack of 2 and I get 150 gold.BONUS.

Speak of the devil! It happened to me today. First time ever.

PS. I get barb chariots all the time. From the barbs' very first appearance in the game. They're killers.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591
[This message has been edited by finbar (edited June 24, 2000).]

[William Keenan]

Paul, a diplomat on defence is equal to a warrior, 1d, 1hp 1fp. So if the barb leader had the same stats as the diplomat then you would lose alot more offen. As someone pointed out even a wounded warrior attacking at 1/3 power can take a barb leader so it's stats must be weaker then the diplomat, right?

Finbar, Smash, on that barbarian chariot thing ... everyone knows you get barbarian chariots ... what I said was that chariots don't come off of triremes.

[Paul]

William, a diplomat has a defense of zero.

[William Keenan]

I've learned something new today. Thanks for setting me straight on that.

I thought the barbarian leader would have zero hp because I have never seen one get wounded, it's always one hit and over.

[finbar]

quote: Originally posted by William Keenan on 06-24-2000 09:14 AM Finbar, Smash, on that barbarian chariot thing ... everyone knows you get barbarian chariots ... what I said was that chariots don't come off of triremes.

Understood. I was responding to East Street Trader. I think Smash was, too.


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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[tonic]

One thing I've picked up from reading the forum is to try things out empirically wherever possible courtesy the Cheat Menu.

So I have one very injured Barb Chariot, hp 12 (close enough to Smash's stated Chariot condition) stacked with Barb Leader on fortressed tundra (normal defence). My Horseman attacks stack and Barb Leader defends on the very first try!

QED - Smash's experience supported .

The 2nd scenario: non-vet Warrior moved twice on river (road) with 1/3 strength attacking Barb Leader (on grassland). Warrior dies 1st try!! But survives redded next try! Well out of 10 tries, it's split 5:5.
Therefore the Barb Leader does have defensive strength >0. Using the above result one could postulate a value of 0.17 (rounding 0.16666666...) .

The postulate of a Barb Leader having a defence value of 0.17 would make sense in the context of this thread.

Worthwhile discovery, Smash and one I will add to my currently meagre stock of strategems for the lucrative 150 gold in the context of OCC. But Barb Chariots? That's a rare animal in my books.
[This message has been edited by tonic (edited June 24, 2000).]

[Smash]

I knew the Aussies would come to the rescue

I often wished barb chariots were rare

Maybe cause I go for Feudalism fairly early for raging hoardes.I don't know.Maybe cause I don't go for Mono very early.

They do come by triremes.At least for me.I get just about every 4 legged barb unit from boats of some kind.

Sometimes I get these HUGE raiding parties.20+ units of cutting edge technology.They just keep popping up from a central square.

I've had 2 and 3 barbs boats show up at the same time with the accompanying troops.

[The Mad Monk]

I knew I saw this before...

The Pikeman's Defense: http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HT...tml?date=21:37

The pertinent sections start around mid-thread.

[East Street Trader]

I remain fairly convinced that I don't see barb chariots often. No longer trust my memory as to exactly how rarely.

Attractive notion that my own preferred tech path influences this as compared to Smash's very different experiences.

Trouble is I have previously been happy with the idea that the various barb units which the game will generate over time is influenced by my current tech and the A1s' current tech.

Maybe what the disparity between my experience and Smash's suggests is that the A1s follow a reasonably predetermined tech path. That would mean that the divergencies between different human player's styles would be the main determinant of differences in the barb units generated in their respective games.

Can't say this is easy to reconcile with my own empiric evidence. Does sort of accord with some comments from Ming and others that I've noted in passing in these threads tho'.


An afterthought. Smash, do you typically start with 7 civs or less?
[This message has been edited by East Street Trader (edited June 25, 2000).]

[Smash]

Almost always 7.There is technology table here http://sleague.apolyton.net/Guides/s...advances.shtml that tells the what techs effect what.There are several early techs that change sea based and hut barbarians.

[finbar]

I've had barb chariots appear in 3900BC. I certainly haven't had The Wheel, so unless some other bastard out there in the darkness has it, I'm not sure that early barb equipment is governed by techs.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[The Mad Monk]

I have had games where the civs had vastly different tech levels, along with lots of land-based spawn points. From observing which types of barbs appeared where, I conclude that it's based on the tech of the civ nearest the spawn point.

Note this dosen't mean the barbs can't wander off in the opposite direction...

[Matthew]

At the beginning of the game barbs can be archers, horsemen, and I believe chariots as well, even if no one has the required techs for these. Makes sense in a way. Few people would gasp in horror as barbarian warriors were to throw themselves upon cities defended by fortified phalanxes.

[William Keenan]

The type of barbarians units that appear are based solely on whether or not the trigger technology has been discovered. It works like wonders do, if any civ discovers the trigger tech the wonder is obsolete. Same for barbarians, if any civ discovers iron working the barbarians on triremes change from archers to legions.

For a full catalog of all the changes that effect randomly appearing barbarians and goody huts, I suggest you read the barbarian paper.