Large World playing 2.42

[La Fayette]

high speed research

Thank you to those who replied (namely Marquis and Carolus)
I start a new thread, trying to collect any advanced knowledge in that field.

[Smash]

I have now made it to 1000 AD.Doing better than "laugh at SG" game but not as good as I think could be done.I stayed too long in Monarchy for an early landing but I was having fun expanding so...

Trade was mishandled also.NOT 1 route before 1ad.No rehoming and no internal trading.All foreign.Took awhile to get going but 39 cities can produce alot of freight.Capitol and SSC cargo are bringing 1200-1600 a piece(demanded).Others approx 100-600 depending on city and demand.A long ship chain as usual.Gotta love the ship chain!

cities-39
techs-60
wonders-11
Gardens
Collosus
Marco Polo
Cope's
Isaac's
Shake's
Leo's
Mich's
JSB
Magellan's
Darwin's

I think I will land between 1400 and 1500 maybe.I shouldn't complain,but I feel like I left something undone or not maximized.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Setting the bar low - REAL low - like 1904

OK, so I gave it a try. Bearing in mind I don't play deity much; I figured if it was a good map, I'd have a good shot at it. You deity vets should have a good laugh at the log!!

Seriously, I got to this point with no overseas trade and very little diplomacy in general. I felt I did a good job in the early going of managing use of trade specials, and the game start sure helped a lot.

STYOM


3950: Trondheim founded. Horseman from hut - YEAHHHH
3900: Researching Monarchy
3800: Kaupang founded
3750: Warriors in Trondeheim. Building settlers.
3700: Monarchy discovered. Researching Currency. Revolution.
3650: Monarchy proclaimed.
3450: Currency discovered. Researching Pottery.
3400: Nomads from hut.
3350: disorder in Kaupang - elvis hired. Uppsala founded.
3300: Kaupang placated. 25 gold from hut.
3250: Warrior in Kaupang. Building Settler.
3200: Pottery discovered. Researching Trade.
3150: Workers rearranged in Trondheim and Kaupang to take advantage of specials.
3100: Warrior in Uppsala. Building Settler.
3050: Settler in Trondheim. Trondheim starts Colossus.
3000: Road started, Trondheim-Kaupang.
2900: Trade discovered. Researching Writing.
2750: Toynbee says we're happiest. But we look so blue!
2650: Hladir founded. Warrior started.
2550: Writing discovered. Researching Literacy.
2400: Settlers in Kaupang. More Settlers started.
2350: Settlers in Uppsala. Hanging Gardens started. Barbarian horseman from hut!
2300: Aarhus founded. Viborg founded. Barb horsies disappear (??)
2250: Literacy discovered. Researching Mysticism.
2150: Warriors in Hladir. Settlers started.
2050: Warriors in Aarhus. Settlers started.
2000: Barbarian horse from hut - destroyed by our horseman.
1950: Phalanx in Viborg. Caravan started.
1900: Mysticism discovered. Researching Philosophy.
1700: Settlers in Kaupang. Settler started.
1500: Settlers in Aarhus. Settler started. Philosophy discovered. Mathematics discovered. Researching Horseback Riding. Nomads from hut.
1450: Settlers in Hladir. Caravan started.
1400: Roskilde founded. Phalanx started. 25 gold from hut.
1300: 50 gold from hut. Caravan rush-built in Hladir for 166 gold.
1250: Hladir builds copper Caravan. Caravan started. The Udal founded. Phalanx started.
1150: Coal Caravan in Aarhus. Caravan started. Caravan from Hladir helps build Colossus. 50 gold from hut.
1100: Caravan from Viborg helps build Hanging Gardens. Lindholm founded. Phalanx started. Colossus rush-bought in Trondheim.
1050: Colossus completed. Horseback Riding discovered. Researching Polytheism. Phalanx started in Trondheim.
975: Settler in Aarhus. Settler started. Settler in Kaupang, Settler started.
925: Jorvik founded. Phalanx started. Phalanx in Roskilde, Settler started.
900: Hanging Gardens rush-bought in Uppsala.
875: Hanging Gardens in Uppsala. Settler started.
850: Phalanx in Trondheim. Library started. Revenue streams adjusted from 3.0.7 to 1.2.7. Horsemen from hut.
825: WLTQD in Trondheim. Revenue adjusted to 2.1.7. 50 gold from hut.
800: Polytheism discovered. Researching Monotheism. Phalanx in Lindholm; Settlers started.
775: Indians start Pyramids.
750: Egyptians start Pyramids. Wool Caravan in Viborg. Marco Polo started. Phalanx in Jorvik; Settlers started. Horsemen from hut.
725: Warriors disbanded in Trondheim. Advanced Tribe from hut (Westness; building Phalanx)
700: Settlers in Aarhus; Caravan started.
675: Jarrow founded; Phalanx started.
650: Viborg-Trondheim Wool trade route. Phalanx in the Udal; building Settlers.
625: Monotheism discovered. Researching Republic. Uppsala builds Settlers; Michelangelo started. Kaupang builds Settlers; Caravan started.
600: Tacitus feels we're puny in wealth.
575: Hladir completes Dye Caravan; starts Settler.
550: Jorvik builds Settlers; starts Caravan. 25 gold from hut. Hladir-Trondheim Dye route established.
525: Barbs land near Roskilde. Aaaaah!! Settler in Roskilde; Crusaders started.
500: Phalanx in Westness; Settlers started.
475: Viborg defenders defeat barb archer. Barbs from hut (aaargh, 8 horses!). Production in Westness changed from Settlers to Crusaders. Mercenary Legion from hut.
450: Settlers in Lindhom; Caravan started. Republic discovered; researching Astronomy. Library built in Trondheim; Temple started. Oedo. Skara founded; Phalanx started.
425: Republic formed. Barbarian king captured =150g. Westness Phalanx defeated by barb chariot. Ravning Enge founded; Phalanx started.
400: Barbarians sack Westness. The Udal changes Settler production to Diplomat.
375: Diplomat in The Udal, Diplomat started. Temple rushed in Trondheim.
350: Temple built in Trondheim. Celebration. Workers re-allocated. Trondheim starts Marketplace. Phalanx in Jarrow; Settler started.
325: Egyptians have almost completed Pyramids. 8 horsemen from hut - aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! Birka founded; Phalanx started. (resists temptation to save before tipping hut) Advanced Tribe (Jarlshof). Phalanx started. Sigtuna founded; Phalanx started.
300: Egyptians build Pyramids. Indians and others switch to Great Wall.
275: Astronomy discovered. Researching Map Making
250: Phalanx in Ravning Enge; Settlers started.
225: Hladir builds Settlers; starts Caravan.
200: Jorvik builds Coal Caravan; starts Settlers.
175: Aarhus builds Copper Caravan; starts Caravan. Phalanx in Skara; Caravan started. Odense founded; Phalanx started.
150: Map Making discovered. Researching Wheel.
125: Egyptians build Great Wall. Indians switch to Oracle.
100: Sigtuna builds Phalanx; starts Caravan.
75: Jarlshof builds Phalanx; starts Settler.
50: Wheel discovered; researching Construction.
25: Caravan rushed in Kaupang. Phalanx in Birka; Crusaders started.
1: Diplomat in the Udal; Caravan started. Kaupang builds Oil Caravan; starts Temple. Legion in Birka defeats barbarian horseman. Egyptians start Great Library.
20: Settlers in Ravning Enge; Caravan started. Indians start - and complete (!!!) Lighthouse, and then switch to Oracle.
60: Indians complete Oracle.
80: Michelangelo rush-built. Celts start Marco Polo. Construction discovered; researching Warrior Code.
100: Uppsala completes Michelangelo; starts Caravan.
120: Jarrow builds Settlers; starts Caravan. Luxuries boosted to 40%, Science 50%
140: Barbarian Horseman defeats Phalanx in Birka. Legion defeats horseman. Celebrations begin.
160: Jorvik builds Settlers; starts Caravan.
180: Warrior Code discovered; researching Iron Working. Trondheim completes Marketplace; starts Aqueduct.
220: Barbarians near Aarhus! Production in Aarhus and the Udal changed to Crusaders. Phalanx disbanded and Marco Polo rushed in Viborg.
(notes become briefer here!)
240: Lunde founded.
340: Iron Working discovered; researching Engineering. Luxuries adjusted to 30%
460: Copernicus built in Trondheim.
500: Engineering discovered; researching Invention.
540: Larne founded.
560: Invention discovered; researching Navigation.
700: Leonardo's Workshop built.
720: Somewhere in the interim, Navigation was discovered. Now we have Gunpowder and are working on Banking
800: Hedeby founded. Banking discovered; researching University.
860: Aldeigjuborg (copied and pasted founded.
900: University discovered; researching Theory of Gravity. Holmgard founded.
980: Nonnebakken (SG, these Viking names are too hard to type) founded.
1000: Theory of Gravity discovered; Medicine started. Isaac Newton rush built in Trondheim.
1020: Isaac Newton completed; Egyptians finish Great Library.
1040: Ribblehead founded.
1140: Medicine and Economics discovered somewhere in here. Researching Sanitation.
1220: Thwaite founded. Japanese complete Sun Tzu's War Academy.
1240: Sanitation discovered. Researching Bridge Building.
1280: Askrigg founded. Magellan completed. Bridge Building discovered; researching Chemistry.
1300: Sewer rushed in Trondheim.
1320: Luxuries adjusted (for celebrations)
1340: Indians build King Richard's Crusade. Celebrations in many cities.
1380: Chemistry discovered; researching Explosives.
1440: Explosives discovered; researching Democracy.
1480: Westness bribed from barbarians.
1500: Adam Smith built in The Udal.
1510: Democracy discovered; researching Physics.
1530: Oedo.
1540: Democracy formed.
1570: Physics discovered; researching Feudalism.
1590: Trelleborg founded. Risby founded.
1600: Jelling founded.
1610: Shakespeares Theatre built. Feudalism discovered; researching Magnetism. Vorbasse founded.
1620: Fyrkat founded.
1640: Kvikik founded.
1650: Magnetism discovered; researching Theology. Naples founded (Advanced tribe) Dinas Powys (Celt) subverted.
1670: War with Celts. Issus founded.
1680: Theology discovered; researching Steam Engine.
1710: Steam Engine discovered; researching Railroad.
1740: Railroad discovered; researching Industrialization.
1752: Industrialization discovered; researching Leadership.
1756: Cunaxa founded.
1760: Leadership discovered; researching Corporation.
1766: Corporation discovered; researching Atomic Theory.
1770: Atomic Theory discovered; researching Metallurgy.
1774: Cannae founded (Advanced Tribe)
1776: Metallurgy discovered; researching Communism.
1778: Capua founded.
1782: Indians steal Sanitation. Celts sneak attack! Communism discovered; researching Conscription.
1786: Llangollen (Celt) revolts to our cause.
1788: Conscription discovered; researching Electricity.
1792: Darwin's Voyage completed. Electricity, Tactics discovered. Researching Steel.
1796: Turin founded. Steel discovered; researching Espionage.
1802: Espionage discovered; researching Electronics. Genoa founded.
1806: Llanelli (Celt) revolts to our cause.
1808: Barbarians capture Dinas Powys! Electronics discovered; researching Refrigeration. Dinas Powys bribed back from barbarians.
1810: Egyptians build Statue of Liberty.
1812: Indians steal Gunpowder. War declared on Indians. United Nations completed. Refrigeration discovered; researching Genetic Engineering.
1814: Indian units in our territory destroyed.
1816: Genoa and Naples attacked by Egyptians.
1818: Genetic Engineering discovered; researching Refining.
1820: Women's Suffrage completed.
1822: Refining discovered; researching Machine Tools.
1830: Machine Tools discovered; researching Combustion.
1836: Combustion discovered; researching Miniaturization.
1842: Miniaturization discovered; researching Combustion. Swansea bribed from Celts.
1846: Abergavenny bribed from Japanese; peace with Japanese. Crete founded.
1848: Automobile discovered; researching Mass Production.
1851: Mass Production discovered; researching Computers. Cardigan bribed; peace with Celts.
1853: War with Celts and Japanese.
1854: Cure for Cancer completed. Computers discovered; researching Mobile Warfare.
1855: Rhayader (Celtic) bribed. Peace with Celts.
1856: War with Celts.
1857: Mobile Warfare discovered; researching Robotics
1858: Merthyr bribed from Celts.
1859: Robotics discovered; researching Nuclear Fission.
1860: Neath bribed from Celts. Verona founded.
1862: Salamis founded.
1863: Nuclear Fission discovered; researching Nuclear Power. Yokohama bribed from Japanese.
1864: Nuclear Power discovered; researching The Laser.
1865: Lisbon founded.
1867: The Laser discovered; researching Flight.
1869: Flight discovered; researching Guerilla Warfare. Echizen (Japanese) bribed.
1870: Peace with Greeks.
1871: Guerilla Warfare discovered; researching Radio.
1872: War with Japanese and Egyptians.
1873: Radio discovered; researching Advanced Flight.
1874: Ise bribed from Japanese.
1875: Advanced Flight discovered; researching Rocketry.
1876: Hamburg founded.
1877: Rocketry discovered; researching Amphibious Warfare. Prague founded.
1879: Amphibious Warfare discovered; researching Space Flight.
1881: Space Flight discovered; researching Plastics. Apollo Program rushed with Freight.
1882: Apollo completed. Matsuyama captured from Japanese.
1883: Plastics discovered; researching Superconductor.
1884: Bizen captured from Japanese.
1886: Superconductor discovered; researching Labor Union.
1888: Labor Union discovered; researching Fusion Power.
1891: Fusion Power discovered; researching Stealth
1892: Nara captured from Japanese.
1895: Suo captured from Japanese.
1896: Stealth discovered; researching Combined Arms.
1897: Spaceship launched; arrival estimated 1904.
1898: Nagasaki captured from Japanese.
1899: Combined Arms discovered; researching Recycling.
1901: Recycling discovered; researching Environmentalism
1902: Environmentalism discovered; researching Fundamentalism. Salzburg founded.
1904: Spaceship lands successfully! Score 1392 (180%), Population 30,350,000 - "The Wise"

[Smash]

I finished a little ahead of what I thought.21-5-5-1-1-1 with Fusion launched in 1360ad landing in 1370ad.
I had to have a small fire sale to make it for the last 2 components.Sold off temples,markets and harbors here and there.I had anticipated 1 more turn but the ai was kind enough to get Communism so I was able to trade off right when Superconductor should have been offered but wasn't.
Lots of "mistakes" including trying to improve my ssc routes with some from the capitol.It was a bad move made back before 1000ad and I could never get rid of it.It got better after airports were built but that was too late.Mismanaged my engineers somewhat.Should have worked for the connection bonus.It is very annoying that roads/rrs have to go over certain squares.Built Shake's in my cap but never farmed or built a supermarket

I think I went way overboard on cities.Not sure,but close to 50 at the end.Lots of freights but maybe a smaller number of better developed would have been better.Maybe I should have went for 1 tech on my own....I'm kinda lazy and don't like to do more than is necessary...I'm pretty happy getting 1 per turn.Seems I'm always behind on the build side as related to my research rates.I've got Economics but still havn't finished many markets type thing.

My capitol and ssc were almost never without a commodity to build.I didn't need rehoming even if I was using it.At the end my cap became a repeater for uranium for 4 turns.Unfortunately,there was no foreign demand for it but still brought in 1600+

Some minor skirmishes at the end but never a threat.The purple civ actually sabotaged in a city trying to provoke war.Which they got as I bribed up the city containing Sufferage

Ship chaining is very,very powerful.As usual the ai made no effort to disrupt mine.

[La Fayette]

mistakes?

smash
I say WoW.
Perhaps you made many mistakes, but this is what I call an early landing.
I don't know yet whether numerous cities are nice to have, but long ship chains sure are.

(La Fayette, busy testing high speed research, in order to launch not too many years later than smash)

[arii]

I think that those compared games are a lot of fun. Similar to MP without the time requirement.
I think I will give a try to this new 1 in the next couple days.
People tend to put long logs of their games that are hard to follow. Is it possible to have a short paragraph of what was the overall strategy in a particular attempt?
Like for smash it would be expand as much as possible in monarchy then use the massive building power of the huge civ to crank out caravans for foreign trade.
I find it interesting to look at the overall strategy and see the kind of results you get out of it.

[Smash]

..it gives you a reason to actually finish the game...something almost unheard of in mp games

you might want to check out the civ2 game of the month at CivFanatics.

[La Fayette]

SS launched 1360

smash launched in 1360 a few days ago.
I decided that it would be unfair to launch just one turn ahead of that, since I knew all the time when he had been launching.
The strategy that came to my mind seems to be very close to the one used by arii at the same time in the other game ('... laugh at an SG'), namely:
high priority on information (Marco first wonder) and the SSC (sanitation before 1AD IIRC). I also decided to build few cities (namely 10, to be compared with smash's 39!). I got one more (Westness) as advanced tribe and built 5 more in the very endgame for SS parts building purposes.
I am quite sure that I can beat that by at least a century with a bit more care and a few minor improvements (such as a few more cities, a few explorers and a few more engineers).
Therefore I suppose that arii is now busy beating us by at least 2 centuries ).
Wait and see.

[Smash]

good job.
I also think I could save eons in a more streamlined attempt.There certainly is no need to build as many cities as I did.I had no focus early on.I was just having a looksy at the map when all of sudden it was 1ad
Having seen the map fully now I would say a 700-800ad landing is quite possible.Maybe 900ad.Its a liitle rugged for road building which is important to keep those camels moving.
Advancers and nomads knock off handfuls of turns for each one.But there is no need to get 10+ like I did

[arii]

I have gone until about 800 BC and I don't like the map. There is very little good foreign trade opportunities early in the game. Only the indians are a good partner, the egyptians and celts are way too far. So if the indians do not demand the commodities you are producing you are in trouble.
I guess I will have to try a strategy that relies less on foreign trade for this game.

[solo]

First, thanks to SG for providing a very interesting start. The map was rich in huts, the SSC was very good for a random start on a large map, and all those starting techs were a plus. On the down side, I have to agree with Arii that trade with the AI (except India) was not easy, but maybe Smash and/or LaFayette can provide more details about how they used ship chaining so successfully in their games featuring excellent trade. I am curious how long the chains were and where they were lined up.

My bare bones strategy was to go with any helpers given through nomads and advanced tribes, and only giving them a temple each, relegating them to caravan production for the SSC. I only used a few wonders, starting with Marco Polo’s (1400 BC) in order to identify and use the key civ as early as possible. Then it was on to Colossus (1050 BC), Copernicus (450 BC), Shakespeare’s (125 BC) and Sir Isaac’s (120 AD) to build up SSC science as early as possible. The other part of the strategy was to try for that railroad trade bonus, by using “bait” cities around my SSC, but there were no takers in time for this to work, and research times suffered accordingly. My launch ended up being a century after Smash and LaFayette, and I felt lucky to arrive on the right side of 1500 AD. My congrats to both on two excellent games. In retrospect, I’m convinced they had better ideas for this situation on a large map, so a well done to both!

Just when I thought there wasn’t much new to see or learn about in CivII, 2 things happened in this game that were new to me:

1) I came across a barbarian stack sitting in an AI fortress with a barb leader on top. On top of what, I wondered? Every time before, those cowards were always lurking beneath the accompanying barb military unit when stacked. So I attacked the stack with a horseman, got 150 gold, and out squirted another barb leader who scooted away. Next turn my horseman nailed that one too, for another 150 gold. First time I’ve seen 2 barb leaders in a stack. I’m not complaining, of course, but has anyone else ever seen this?

2) The other new thing for me happened near the end of the game. A new turn was starting and on my screen appears the message, “Barbarians develop Pottery”. After capturing one of my advanced tribe cities early in the game, I guess their aggressions were sated and replaced by a new thirst for knowledge I never knew existed. All that work making bait cities! Too obvious a trap for these erudite scholars, I guess.

Anyways, the game was fun and a humbling reminder that there are still new things to learn about this old game.

[Smash]

In this game my chain was to Celtic land.With Magellan's and transport it was 8 units long or so.But I had some 12 or more ships working at one time.On large maps my chains are usually at least 6 with Magellan's long.30-50 squares.

I built up 2 cities early.I do this all the time.Build cities up 1 or 2 at a time.The more high trade arrow cites I can get,the more high value freight I can deliver without rehoming.I used the gold site for my SSC and built up my cap simutaneously.This was an ideal situation.

1.Yes.It was a plan to build a fort on the edge of outskirts or at the edge of "black",or near a flashpoint.Leaders will head for forts and stack after there escorts have lost.

2.I have never seen that.I have heard it before though from a few others.

[La Fayette]

I built a rather short trireme chain to the indians in the early game, then moved it to a much longer chain to the celts when I got magnetism (14 galleons without Magellan IIRC).
Never tried your 'bait' cities for that purpose (but I use it quite often close to the barbs, in order to get early partisans).
Never killed 2 barb leaders in a row.
...must be delicious.
Have met a barb discovery once... LOL.

(La Fayette, looking at a barb leader who just discovered SETI)

[solo]

Thanks Smash and La Fayette, for the details about your ship chains. I established one to the Indians, but in this game almost all my advanced tribes were inland, and only a few nomads appeared, so I only had about 6 coastal cities from which to build and launch ships. One of the best of these was taken by the barbarians, too! No excuses, though, as I should have built more settlers to found more coastal cities early in the game. Ship chains more than pay back for the time in expense put into building them.

Now for something really new. Has anyone ever seen a game where the barbarians were able to build space ship parts?

[Scouse Gits]

I forgot about this thread with all the excitement about Civ 3.

I REPEAT this was a restart. It's still my best result on a large world.

-----------------

SG(2)