Avoiding shield waste in production

[Alexander's Horse]

When producing things, is there any simple way of telling from the number turns it will take to produce an item whether gold will be wasted on the last production turn? Do people have strats to deal with this, for example through rush building on the last turn before production?

It would be good when producing armies to calibrate your production so waste is minimised. For example it would be better to build a unit in a city where there would be minimum waste without the need for endless micro.

[KrazyHorse]

Uh, I think you mean "...whether shields wil be wasted...".

The answer is yes. Ask to rushbuy the item in question. Divide the gold required by the proper factor (four for semi-built wonders&units, 2 for semi-built improvements, double if there are no shields in the production queue) and you get the number of shields left to go. Find the remainder when you divide this number by the production of the city. This remainder is the number of shields which will be wasted. The way to quickly build things without waste is to buy a lower-cost item of the same type, and then switch production back to the original item. Hopefully, the difference in shields can be completed in one turn with little waste. I think it took me about two hours after I bought Civ II to come up with that one.

[Eyes_Of_Night]

uhhhhh....why don't you just mutliply the number of turns by the shield production and subtract the total amount of shields required? But if you feel a highly complicated equation is required then feel free to invent one Einstein.

[Ming]

Originally posted by EyesOfNight
uhhhhh....why don't you just mutliply the number of turns by the shield production and subtract the total amount of shields required? But if you feel a highly complicated equation is required then feel free to invent one Einstein.

Good point... ROTFLMAO...
You should listen to the master AH....

[Sirotnikov]

ming,

check your PMs now please, it's urgent....

thanks

I promise to edit it later and enter something relevant to the discossion

[Alexander's Horse]

never mind

Wasted shield production could be a decisive issue in a MP game - but I guess I'll just keep getting flamed for raising it.

[Smash]

Well thats basically it.Math.
Lets say you are producing 7 sheilds and you are building a caravan.After 4 turns you will have 28 of sheilds leaving 22.Now you buy a diplomat taking it to 30 leaving 20.3x7=21.You have just saved 1 turn.Buy the dip after 3 turns and you save 2 turns.
Now lets say you are producing 8 sheilds.In 3 turns you have 24 leaving 26.Once again buy the diplomat to save a turn.
Or 15 sheilds.Buy the phalanx or whatever taking it to 20 and 2x15=30 saving a turn.

Is that kinda what you mean?

[Alexander's Horse]

Thanks Smash

Yeah I use inc buying - I was just interested in people's strats for reducing shield waste and setting production efficiently for units, that's all.

[Smash]

Well obviously your government and terrain has a great effect on this.

on 1x I first aim for 5 sheilds.Then finish warrior,switch to phalanx,finish phalanx etc.5 sheild increments are 11 gold per and save 1 turn each.
Next is 7,8 then 10.15 is next followed by 20.Ideally I get to 25 per.Thats enough until much later.2x this is fairly easy to acheive in relatively tiny cities.Any more and pollution becomes a possible problem depending on tech level.

[DaveV]

AH - the other trick is to move your workers to produce exactly the number of shields required. Say you have 36 shields in the box toward a settler and are producing 6. You can move a worker from forest to ocean to reduce your shields production by 2 and increase your arrow production by 2.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by EyesOfNight
feel free to invent one Einstein.

Why are you always so aggressive EON?
Did your mother beat you when you were a young boy or what?
I am sure you are a clever and experienced player. Why not show us? Why not play a game against Dave? Why not have a try at some of the scenarios we are now playing (such as ww2 with a minor civ, or Rome, or Alexandre,...)?

[Eyes_Of_Night]

Well I decided to come up with a nice equation for this incredibly complicated problem.

F(S)=([(S*P)^4-80/4000E^(-4)]+[(WAHA*CE)(e^x)])/[X ln 14.4^(KX)]

Where S is shield production, P over all production, WAHA is the width of AH's ass, CE is the circumference of the Earth, and X is the IQ of DaveV. In recent tests of this equation WAHA is usually a very high value while X is very low, even sometimes a negative.

"AH - the other trick is to move your workers to produce exactly the number of shields required. Say you have 36 shields in the box toward a settler and are producing 6. You can move a worker from forest to ocean to reduce your shields production by 2 and increase your arrow production by 2."

That's a pretty fancy trick you got there. Better write another strategy on it, looks pretty complicated and I doubt it's ever been used before.

[KrazyHorse]

Uh...if you hadn't noticed, the second part is exactly the same thing that you said. The first part is there because I find it easier to divide a gold price by four than to count shields.

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by DaveV
AH - the other trick is to move your workers to produce exactly the number of shields required. Say you have 36 shields in the box toward a settler and are producing 6. You can move a worker from forest to ocean to reduce your shields production by 2 and increase your arrow production by 2.

AH, this is the answer you seek. Most of us use it, if we're being intense about micromanagement. Getting to a smaller remainder (=waste) with incremental buys is even more intense. If you're playing SP, you can easily take the attitude, "What's a few shields among friends?" If playing MP, micromanage like crazy with these techniques. Xin Yu discussed the benefits of switching workers back and forth in his size 5 strategy. The theory applies even when not "size fiving." As to EON, flame wars are a waste of time, so ignore him.

[Alexander's Horse]

ya thanks

Actually these little things count. I just got beaten by Markusf, mainly because he got a big lead in science - but when I looked back at the saves I could have easily improved my science rate from 8 turns to 3! Just by using my workers better.

Lazy Horse