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Not sure if you are just stirring Rah but think 250 is spot on for HG, and maybe pyramids. The point above about later wonders being easier despite their higher cost is a fair one though........I think to be consistent the whole wonder cost structure should be revamped.....but that is probably too much effort.
The original intents was not to muck with the rules.txt file, due to some of the incidents involving changes to it.
The only reason it was done with oracle was because no one ever built it. On HG and Pyr., War has made some good arguements changing them based on the cost for other wonders. I can see his point on some of them and on others I choose to dissagree. My problem is that I view it like the instant replay rule in football. Unless there is indisputable proof that the rules.txt needs to changed, don't change it. (consensus is usually a good indicater) War's arguement (while having some valid points) doesn't seem indisputable to me. Which I'm sure frustrates him since I'm sure he believes it is.
That's why I brought up MP. Just like Oracle, no one ever builds it in our games (except on the last turn sometimes just to build a wonder, or if they get trapped by other wonders being built). I was just putting out feelers on how low we would have to make it before someone would actually desire to build it. I fear War4 is using it for payback and saying 200, Which he knows can't be right since no one ever builds it.
The GW is a good example. Consensus was that we shouldn't use it but after considerable experience, people are now thinking differently. This doesn't seem to have happened with Oracle.
RAH
It was never my intent to redo the entire wonder rules.
It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O
Point taken, and it _is_ harder (though not impossible) to make a case for increasing the cost of just one wonder. It's just that if I was building the game from scratch I would increase the cost of most wonders.
The only ones are the early ones. Once you have your infrastructure built, I always have spare caravans in storage for emergencies so the cost of later wonders is really immaterial. But I do consider those early caravans more valuable because they represent a higher percentage of my production capacity at that time so Most of the early wonders aren't cheap.
RAH
It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O
i concede the point....its not that i feel as though i am right or wrong.....you have pointed out many areas of my arguement which have validity btw (probably just being nice)
either way it really makes no difference to me...i don't like changing marcos b/c it really has little value in a game like ours and all your doing is rewarding someone who doesnt take chances to see who and what every one has....so my vote is to keep marco where he is .
The GW is only going to be built by those who are wimps.... er i mean those whom are under extreme pressure and if we only allow if in 4 player games that makes me happy.
i am finished with my crusade on pyramids or HG...... while i will concede the trade off point that many are trying to valiantly make here on the forums, i still feel that at only 200 shields, (yes thats five settlers) and a choice that both are great wonders and come very cheaply no matter how you look at it. They allow for catch up or that early lead at 1/3 -1/2 of the cost of the next round of happies/ "valuable" wonders. Which by then if you can't put together afew cities to crank caravans, you have no business playing this game.
However, we have all learned a bit over the last few weeks and i know that some players have deliberately not built HG or pyramids till later just to prove their point , seems to be a trend i have started except i still don't build it.
anyways...looking forward to friday when we can play a game.
oh and the arguement about the higher capacity Rah...come on now....EVERYone once they have 8-10 cities does a mini caravan pump........how do you think all those wonders are being built....good will so reality dictates that if were all using the same strategy for the most part, its really just a race to monarchy and trade, so that someone can pick off HG......
at least that used to be the way you played almost EVERY game.no offence..... But we all know your tactics can change as ferrets are known to be crafty
My strat on HG has changed over the years. I used to blindly race for it. Now I don't. In fact the war academy is a higher priority in most games for me. I will never research pottery before trade because I hate seeing it built while I'm still researching it. (if I get it from a hut, and I'm not too far behind, I will go agressive for it, just to get something from the deviation off the desired path)
But you are correct, it is a sweet wonder that makes celebrating quite easy. SO, if it's still available later when I know I will have the caravans ready and I can quickly develop the tech, you have to give it a shot. When Ming or Berz are in the game, it's usually built by the time I will even consider it. While ming will go for trade first, berz, Xin and a few others will try it before trade. (unless you can keep them occupied with some troops so they're concentrating on defense )
I have gotten HG more frequently lately, but that's because it's not being built as early as it was. The last game I got it, I think it was around 1600, and you promptly built leo's just a few turns later. If you're beelining for invention gunpowder and metalurgy, I really don't want to be too far behind in techs.
Pikes and cats can be nasty, but muskets and cannons are death.
It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O
Slightly off topic I fear but rah you say "to get something from the deviation off the desired path" indicating that Pottery is not your chosen 'junk tech' that has to be acquired on the route to Monarchy.
So what is your chosen junk tech assuming that you don't pop WC from a hut?
in raging horde. Bronze gives you three benifits,
defense, buying the second rack, and on the way to currency/trade. Or horse, defense(through offense), buying up the second rack, faster exploring.
Since I'm conservative and like to have defense before 3250 (barb time), I'll usually go bronze.
Rich
It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O
Bronze for me most times, with horsies and writing preferable to pottery most of the time. Bronze is most flexible.......going pottery so early can backfire.
And you must remember that in 2x on small rocks, your opponents can be right on top of you before 3200, before you've surrounded your cap. Nothing discourages early aggression than losing the first couple of encounters. Or horses coming out your cities to kill those non chariot and archer aggressors.
Early in the game your cap is so vulnerable. You've just spit out that first settler, you cap is size one again and is only defended by a warrior. That wandering horse that you got from a hut, stumbles on another's cap and there's only a warrior defending. Suprise attack bonus and their game is over. I know others will stay with the warrior defense early on, but I feel a lot better once that phalanx is built. (even though it costs me a rack that could have gone to a settler)
It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O
lol i stay with the warrior defence as long as i can....but your right, if an enemy archer or chariot shows up, good night irene....ah the chances we take.
junk tech is always bronze in small mp games, in large SP games i like horsies to explore with, and to defend my horde or warriors
i agree that HG is playing a lessor role these days, my arguement would have had more merit 3+ yrs ago when HG was built by 2500 bc most games
i agree that STWA is a better wonder in our games..especially since its difficult to plop more than 25 cities in our games now....
the new race has been for STWA and not HG the last couple of months...which is fun b/c i can often win that race
i have revamped my trade strategy again...we shall see how it works, my game has become too predictable..so we will try something new out
Yep, you're certainly right. Three years ago when HG was always being built by 2800-2500, I would have leaned more towards your arguement. (the 2800 was put in there as a tribute to XIN) but when it's not being built till 1800 or 1600, obviously players like you and me have determined that we have other priorities. While you claim that you intentionaly don't build it. I'm claiming that I have other priorities that early (STWA). BUT, eventually if it's still there, "what the heck".
It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O
well i think its pretty obvious i don't build it for a reason..i have crusaded this way for quite some time we both know this to be true....you on the other hand have reframed from building it just to spite me for as long as possible
no, i am saying i don't build it b/c i believe it makes you lazy in a duel, that is different, the benefits are much larger....in a four player game perhaps not so much anymore...but 3 yrs ago...different story.
that both are great wonders and come very cheaply no matter how you look at it. They allow for catch up or that early lead at 1/3 -1/2 of the cost of the next round of happies/ "valuable" wonders. Which by then if you can't put together afew cities to crank caravans, you have no business playing this game.
so reality dictates that if were all using the same strategy for the most part, its really just a race to monarchy and trade, so that someone can pick off HG......
But we all know your tactics can change as ferrets are known to be crafty
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