RAH rules: The Neverending Saga

[War4ever]

WELL I GUESS I CAN LIVE WITH 120 FOR MARCOS ON ITS OWN, I WISH SOMEONE WOULD AGREE WITH THE PYRAMIDS/HG WONDERS

[ColdWizard]

am i not someone?

[Ming]

While I can understand your position on HG... PYRAMIDS makes no sense to raise. If you build it EARLY, when it will actually do you some good, it either cost you a bunch of early growth, or you got screwed on a better wonder. If you build it late, it isn't going to do you all that much good in our games... and by then, WLYD's have made it kind of obsolete

[War4ever]

Originally posted by Ming
While I can understand your position on HG... PYRAMIDS makes no sense to raise. If you build it EARLY, when it will actually do you some good, it either cost you a bunch of early growth, or you got screwed on a better wonder. If you build it late, it isn't going to do you all that much good in our games... and by then, WLYD's have made it kind of obsolete

actually building it early is ideal, for all those mountain ciites you can't grow b/c of lack of food....dont' understimate the power of pyramids......its a great long term wonder and a great expansion wonder.... in fact its the second best early wonder in the game and even that is debateable....some people like it better than HG and of course the two together make it nearly impossible to catch anyone in a one night game ....all that for the price of Mikes.....


haha i will take HG Pyramids any day and lets see who wins

[Ming]

Fine... build it before HG My point is that you can catch up any lost growth through WLYD's quickly. If you build it at the cost of expansion early, it's not really going to do you much good in a typical one night game.

[War4ever]

why do you all say at the cost of expansion, there is no cost, if you build caravans when you get trade, which we ALL do, getting hg or pryamids for 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of another wonder is such a bargain, so where is the tradeoff

[ColdWizard]

i put in the GW as allowed in 4+ player games since there doesn't seem to be any opposition.



note to self: backups updated

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by War4ever
why do you all say at the cost of expansion, there is no cost, if you build caravans when you get trade, which we ALL do, getting hg or pryamids for 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of another wonder is such a bargain, so where is the tradeoff

War I am with you on the cost increase, but I have to disagree on the trade-off front. If you really really want a wonder you have to start it early..........forgoing some expansion.

[Ming]

Originally posted by War4ever
why do you all say at the cost of expansion, there is no cost, if you build caravans when you get trade, which we ALL do, getting hg or pryamids for 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of another wonder is such a bargain, so where is the tradeoff

Some people build it without using caravans

Plus... there is still a trade off... you are trading away a trade route or additional expansion

And Last... it's only 2/3 the cost of the next level of Wonders

[War4ever]

Originally posted by Ming


Some people build it without using caravans

Plus... there is still a trade off... you are trading away a trade route or additional expansion

And Last... it's only 2/3 the cost of the next level of Wonders

yes and those who choose to build it like myself are being punished, not you wimps that use four vans so whats your big beef?

the trade off is only if the cap demands the route, otherwise the first ones are food vans...so again i see no trade off...when the caravan pump comes and it always comes you always build 4 for an instant wonder and extra if your cities are big and demand it....but generally its the wonder that is the priority early..so again, where is the trade off...?? all your doing is building the same old same old.....

exactly, the next level of wonders..which IMO play less importance in the early game and cost MORE....so again i ask you....200 shields for one wonder which gives an edge over everything else in the ealry land grab, where no routine is broken for you b/c you use 4 vans for the route.....not too mention, the van pump lasts more than one round, its usually 2-3 and while your sets make a few roads and claim the new territory...

traditional game, 8-10 cites, 4 vans instant wonder, two more vans for two routes, another 4 -8 vans for another wonder and/or routes....meanwhile your other sets are in place after making roads....

the early game is so predictable....

anyways...its obvious its not going to happen and we are seeing things from completely differnt angles....i will concede your point on a trade off....that being expansion after 10 cities for vans....but really, lets be honest, who can't have 10 cities 6 turns after monarchy anyways ?????

my vote is no on marcos... bring back GW in games of 4 players only....and i guess the rest stays the same

[rah]

The one point you keep mentioning is comparing the cost to later wonders. In my opinion, creating the 4 vans for HG is harder than the 8 for mics, because by the time I get MONO, by core cities are exclusively popping caravans, and I have more cities that I can dedicate to the task. I usually also have the roads in place to deliver them faster and I have more money to rush whatever else I need. So I don't think that part of your arguement is as strong as you're presenting.

RAH

[Alexander's Horse]

I built HG last night - and London to a brick finbar was after it - I'm happy with the cost the way it is thank you

[Ming]

Originally posted by War4ever
yes and those who choose to build it like myself are being punished, not you wimps that use four vans so whats your big beef?

Now you aren't even making sense.

By making it more expensive, you are almost guaranteeing that you have to use caravans to build it.
It will be almost impossible to build it in the normal way before somebody can get trade and build 4 or EVEN 6 caravans...

We've seen people build it by 2800 BC (Xin Yu, often in 2x production games). By raising the cost, this wouldn't be possible.

So your suggestion just means that it's a race for trade and caravans to get it... instead of the choice/trade off of giving up on early expansion by building a wonder instead of cranking out settlers... Yes, one of those trade offs you seem to be ignoring

Also...

the trade off is only if the cap demands the route, otherwise the first ones are food vans...

Again... what the heck are you talking about. If you have a decent trade capital... and a direct road route to another city that has decent trade, even a non demanded commodity can be good, and still worth delivering for the money and science boost... again, another "trade off"

[War4ever]

ok ming your right

[rah]

Darn, just when I was thinking of proposing 250 shields.

RAH