Lebensraum- 1939 PBEM Test

[Henrik]

I agree, let Pavlov stay

[Case]

How do we know that you're not cheating Pavlov? In my experiance, cheaters rarely limit their activites to one game, and even less rarely admit to all their cheating when caught.

I'd rather that we found a replacement for you.

[klesh]

This could explain Techumseh's mysterious freelance destroyer runs.

[SunTzu]

freelance destroyer runs?

[klesh]

sure, last page... 7 posts down from the top.

[Pavlov]

I'm sorry you feel that way, Case. Oh well, it was fun playing with you.

And FMK, the destroyer-thing is not because of anything I have done. I have not cheated in this game, I swear.

[klesh]

I didn't say you did. I was just saying it could be, hence the italics. I am not in this game, so it isn't up to me anyway Pavlov.

[techumseh]

I'm inclined to let Pavlov stay, since he's admitted it. At some point we have to start building a concensus among PBEM players that cheating is unacceptable and that cheaters eventually get caught and exposed. Having a reformed cheater or two onside might help spread the message.

[PinkyGen]

From Darius, who has been banned.

While I'm for letting Pavlov stay in the games I'm in with him, to be fair to Case I thought I'd remind you all that cheaters have been given "second chances" before. In the case of Willemvanoranje, he gave us the old "I only cheated in this turn in this game, nowhere else" line, we let him continue, and it was quickly proven that he indeed did cheat in another game. In the case of Elibb, he was given a second chance and cheated again.

Here are the threads so you can see for yourselves:

Willemvanoranje

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=314382#post314382

Elibb

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=374619#post374619

[/Darius speaking through me since he's banned]

[klesh]

I think that it takes more of a man to admit to cheating than to have just plain cheated.

What do you mean by a consensus techumseh? I mean, they are pretty much caught and exposed within each thread per occurance. But with this there is no way to have the brand of 'cheater' follow you from one game to another other than word of mouth.

Maybe we could have some kind of system within the CivII PBEM civgroup whereby you are either rated for every PBEM game you play by the other players. This could be a simple 1-5 stars and a comments field which is entered into a kind of log for each civgroup member, like on the civgroup personal profile or somesuch.

Something where a newbie who might not know the local scuttlebut can know enough to not ask a particular player to join a game...

Then again, do we want a blacklisting witchhunt on our hands? I dunno whats best.

[Case]

Pavlov only 'admitted' to cheating after he was caught clearly lying (he claimed to have killed a battleship via kamakazis when the casualty figures show that he didn't lose any units that turn). That's hardly the mark of a reformed character IMO.

If I'm the only person with an objection, I'll drop it as Spain is on the other side of the map from me. However, based on past experiance, I doubt that Pavlov is to be trusted.

[SunTzu]

I say let him play, as even if he does cheat in this game it will not hurt my conquest of Russia
And about the PBEM Blacklist, as a mod at CFC i decided against that and closed the thread....so u know my opinion on a PBEM blacklist

[Case]

SunTzu, I seem to recall that you closed that thread because it had been comprehensivly threadjacked and turned into a flame war (me vs a couple of totally uninformed fools from memory )

[SunTzu]

hmmm maybe, i dunno lol. i don't like the idea of a blacklist anyways, your probably right though, lots of flamewars at CFC

[Pavlov]

Okey well if someone feels like doing it I can PM my password and they can look through all my saves to look for cheating.