MP Mod

[Ming]

Since it does seem like it's going to be some time before we see a MP version of Civ III... and we really don't know at this point how long it will take to have a real playable MP version of Civ III...

Has anybody thought of coming up with a Civ II mod that would be designed specifically for MP.

If it hasn't been done... why not.

What things would you like to see changed in Civ II MP that might make it a better game, but could be done in a mod?

[ravagon]

Case is working on a "Cruel Sea" type scenario specifically for MP.
Check the thread "would anybody be interested in this?" in the Sleague forum.

[CapTVK]

I think Ming is referring to a general MOD for MP, Ravagon.

It's rather surprising though that we're still playing according to the standard rule.txt (or with 2x, 1x). Seeing how many people come with MOD's and rule changes for Civ3 we've been pretty lucky with Civ2.


Still, there's room for improvement...I would put more emphasis on early naval units and tweak the production values off nearly all the land types. Plus I would introduce something like the industrial square used in Red Front. Problem is that it shouldn't appear at the start. So generated maps are out.

[Chris 62]

What would you want in this mod, Ming?

I use altered Units and Terrain as standard, the game ones suck, so I changed them long ago.

If you mean a different tech tree, this has been done also, the Facist patch does this, alteres the tech tree and adds units and a different kind of government.

Many Diplo games, like the HOTW series use extra units and techs, and are for MP use.

Give me an idea of what you like to see.

[Brian Bergs]

Random events

I think random events are fun. Goodie huts are random but right now, just the random appearance of barbs is about the only thing going.

What about things like a pestilence that wipes out your population but nobody wants to invade or trade with you because then they catch it. Maybe a resource square appears in an established city, or a resource square gets mined out.

[Frank Johnson]

The problem isnt so much modding the game, but there's only so much room inbetween existing units for new ones. So if you add a few units, you end up tweaking all of them to scoot that unit in. Most people are too lazy to do this so a new unit is either really powerful (and makes some other unit useless) or totally redunant or useless.

Also, theres the logistics issue. Making everyone in the game aware of the new rules is difficult, much more difficult is getting people to correctly install them before a game. Also you have to put up with the whinners every time you successfully attack/defend with one of the new units.

This is why most mods occur in large, multi-session well organized games, and not in the standard duelish type games. And we try different things every game so nothing permanent evolves.

I agree that modding is fun and possible.........its just that theres no incentive to do it unless a group has become really bored, and then they need to have a good modder on hand.

[cavebear]

I think one of the more useful changes to Civ2 would be to truly randomize the resource squares. Something to eliminate the pattern so that the locations can't be predicted.

Eliminating the ability to get any information from a black square would help keep things fair.

Aside from that, a transport unit that could navigate rivers would be interesting. And it would be nice to be able to build a true bridge (spanning several water squares).

[Frank Johnson]

Well those are bug fixes and add-ons.......nothing someone who is modding the game can actually do.

[cavebear]

Then can you yourself give any example of the kind of suggestion you mean?

[Frank Johnson]

Well I thought the question posed by ming was this, being that civ2 can support about 10 new techs and units each, why hasn't a improved standard multiplayer mod come along to make use of those....

Asking for bug fixes for civ2 seems out there when you consider how busily they are creating new bugs in civ3.

Basicly I could easily make a mod, that would intergrate into the civ2 tech tree and provide those extra units and techs, but getting that mod played on a large scale is something entirely different.

[cavebear]

Ah. I thought he meant something to be incorporated by a new Civ2 upgrade by the software developers. You are looking at suggestions for what a skilled user might change?

[ravagon]

Well then,

Firstly it'll come down to the people playing it as to what would be included and any preferred settings (Historical, Sci-Fi, etc) and the degree of change involved. No use designing something if nobody wants to use it right?
Then said mod is going to have to deal with all of the problems of other mods/scenarios regarding unit/tech-tree quirks (of which there are legion) before even considering play-balancing.
Should it be evenly balanced for all sides or would it be better/different to have multiple players allying against one super-side?
The use of "house rules" should be considered before designing begins as well as the possibility of AI civs (Some groups seem to play with and some without these?) and how they would handle new units/techs (and obviously ignore house rules).

Events don't work outside scenarios unless you're using ToT so that avenue is out.

Editting/Modding exe's or other mostly inaccessible characteristics strikes me as unwise given that MP games seem to have enough stability(?) (not to mention AI) problems as it is. That would remove the possibility of ocean terraforming or river transports.

[Ming]

Hmmm... interesting responses so far.
Now that I've seen the initial reaction...

Here is what I meant

No... I'm not really looking for a bunch of new units, new sciences, or a new "theme"...

I'm just looking for ways to make the current game we are playing better...
And that a group of people who play together most of the time, would use them. We have a solid group that plays all the time.
We play by "rah rules" to avoid many arguments, and not waste a few hours arguing what rules we are going to play.

Could mods provide more options...
being able to start in a later era with everybody having the same starting sciences... but still, a random map...

More equal starting positions...

Maybe adding a science here or there if somebody thinks it makes sense... or a new military unit to fill in any perceived gaps in the combat model...

Downgrading the strength of spies/diplos

Making caravans for wonders worth less shields... or more...

I really don't know at this point. I was just wondering what suggestions might come from this forum, where MP is more the focus...

[Frank Johnson]

Ming I forgot who started it, but there was an alternate rule set out there for awhile that filled some holes in the game. It added an anicent era trading ship that wouldnt cause unhappiness in republic and democracy and increased the cost of diplos to 50 or 60.

What needs "improvement" is always debatable though.

[ravagon]

Ming,

I don't think modpacks by themselves, used on randomly created new maps can do anything about the starting sciences or positions.

In a mod making small changes you could add pretty much any unit you like but somebody would have to balance it very carefully (read: I don't know whether Xin will be playing this mod or not )

Spies/Dips could have movement rates reduced as well as increased costs which would reduce their effectiveness somewhat. ie: could still steal techs etc from ship if a city is adjacent to ocean squares but would have to land for a turn before use otherwise.

Lastly, it'd probably make more sense to increase the shield costs for a caravan (to 100?) as this would reduce a players flexibility in building them. Reducing costs would just encourage players to pump out even more of them.