Dreaming a History for a World yet to hit shelves

[OzzyKP]

Well the thought of continuing the History of the World saga has hit some of us. So i've created this thread to shoot around ideas and dream up Diplogaming possibilities for Civilization 3.

I liked the colonization aspects of HOTW2. I think we should keep that in the new game, especially with all of the new features. We start everyone off in the Old World and then everyone has to compeate for resources overseas.

It'll be cramped, but less so since the map will be bigger. But cramped is good, that is how it should be.

In the current game the goal of going to the New World is for more territory. In the new game the goals will be more in-line with Earth-History reasons. People initially colonized the new world for resources not found back in europe. This would be great to see role-played out. A real age of discovery.

I hear that a premade World Map will be packaged with Civ3, which will be good. But seeing the one that came with Civ2 Capo and I may have to do some tweaking.

As long as we are dreaming about a game months off anyone think we can bring back some of the Diplo-game originators like John B for another go at it with a new game? We can hope.

[The Capo]

Whoo HOTW3!!!!

Well as I've said before its a damn good thing the HOTW Series is going to live on, I thought after the first fiasco that the second was wishful thinking, months (and plenty of arguments) later its still alive and kickin. Therefore, I hope 3 winds up being the best out of the series as far as problems are concerned.

And yes, its quite fitting that it occurs with Civ3.

I was thinking about whether or not we want a "Colonial" aspect in this game since we had it in 2, and so far Ozzy has shown his interest (this could be because he wasn't in 2), I personally see no problem with a Colonial aspect of the game, so I think that's something we should talk about, namely: Should there be a tribe/tribes in the Americas?

Another thing that, depending on how Civ3 is packaged, could be an issue is the nations allowed. I tend to enjoy having each player pick his or her own nation and play it like that. I assume since this game will begin around the time Civ3 comes out that not much segway would have been made in the field of modification. Which means HOTW3 may be just a straight up Civ3 game. So we'd also have to discuss whether we would do heavy editing of the game like we did in HOTW2 or whether we are going to play it straight up Civ3?

Finally the number of players will have to be an issue. From what I've heared the number of players is going to be 8 rather than 7, and this could be edited to accomodate up to 16 players. The only issue that I have with using the entire 16 is attendence issues, which means for this game we're GOING TO NEED to have a reserve of subs. If we are going to try to push the envelope I suggest 10 players at the most. Thoughts?

Finally, we should think of something new to do with this game (like the first diplogame on Civ3 isn't new, Capo you're a spaz), in HOTW1 we had Colonization including weaker AI tribes in the Americas, in HOTW2 we had that and no SDI, what are we going to do this time, if anything?

So those are the first questions that come to mind, and its only my initial response. This game is going to make History....

of the World.

Lame I know, shaddup. Peace.

[OzzyKP]

Re: Whoo HOTW3!!!!

Originally posted by The Capo
I was thinking about whether or not we want a "Colonial" aspect in this game since we had it in 2, and so far Ozzy has shown his interest (this could be because he wasn't in 2),

Thats part of it. I'm still bitter. But i think with the new features it will work out great in Civ3.

I personally see no problem with a Colonial aspect of the game, so I think that's something we should talk about, namely: Should there be a tribe/tribes in the Americas?

There shouldn't be a human. Maybe an AI or two, but if so they should be handicapped if we can do it. They shouldn't be equal to us when we come over.

Another thing that, depending on how Civ3 is packaged, could be an issue is the nations allowed. I tend to enjoy having each player pick his or her own nation and play it like that. I assume since this game will begin around the time Civ3 comes out that not much segway would have been made in the field of modification. Which means HOTW3 may be just a straight up Civ3 game. So we'd also have to discuss whether we would do heavy editing of the game like we did in HOTW2 or whether we are going to play it straight up Civ3?

From what i've read of the new game it is apparently easier to edit things. And they are going to make it editable when it is first released. I deffinatly think we need to edit it to make custom civs and customize where we start and whatnot. Better yet! We can probably make our own custom units for each civ.

Finally the number of players will have to be an issue. From what I've heared the number of players is going to be 8 rather than 7, and this could be edited to accomodate up to 16 players. The only issue that I have with using the entire 16 is attendence issues, which means for this game we're GOING TO NEED to have a reserve of subs. If we are going to try to push the envelope I suggest 10 players at the most. Thoughts?

Yes, i deffinatly think 10 should be the absolute max. Maybe 8 or 9. But we could have some permanent AI in america. That'd be cool too.

Finally, we should think of something new to do with this game (like the first diplogame on Civ3 isn't new, Capo you're a spaz), in HOTW1 we had Colonization including weaker AI tribes in the Americas, in HOTW2 we had that and no SDI, what are we going to do this time, if anything?

Well i guess i've already suggested the colonization with weaker AI in Americas. That'd work well. And we have yet to see how no SDI works out in HOTW2. Generally I say we've got enough new stuff to work out with civ3 that we don't want to complicate things too much further.

[drake]

Well as I've said to capo

The most important thing is not the map, the units or anything like that, it's the cast. The cast is what will make this game great, not the bells and whistles. So.....rather than discuss whats going to go down in the game, I think we should first figure out who will be interested when the time comes. Then we need to determine who is most likely to finish the game (dedication), and who is most likely to write up a good story line (interest). This is whats important. So, even though this game is many months away (atleast), what we should do is figure WHO's going to want to play, not what the options in game are......really, we don't even know what we'll have as far as options/customizability go anyway.

[Rasputin]

HOTW3 Options

Whilst agreeing with Drake that the player list is the first and main priority . I think this is a good time to discuss some options for the game too, most of us have read the Civ3 stuff released by Firaxis so have some understandingof the game.

If the game gets relesead in October I suggest a HOTW3 start time as mid to late January. This gives us all time to play the game and for Capo etal to play with the editing side. Would be nice to get our own nations and flags as such as per HOTW2.

As for numbers of players, well I guess this all depends on how many volunteer. I think if we get that much interest , perhaps 10 at max too. But I would like to see expressions of interest in being sub for the game too. Perhpas each player once announced can try and find a sub who could play whenever needed perhpas to keep the subs interest letting them play on regular intervals rather than just when main palyer not around.

As for AIs. I like the idea of America being inhabited by the Native Americans (Indians) and perhpas Incas in South america. Shouldnt make them too weak though, we dont want the first one there to dominate , we want the players who reach the Americas to have to fight or Negotiate somewhat.


Ok hope that keeps the discussion going.. So far we have CAPO, OZZY, DRAKE & RASPUTIN interested , any others ????

[OzzyKP]

I agree totally with Drake. In fact the whole History of the World project was first inspired by reading through some of the old diplogames and wanting to get an all star cast for an amazingly rich new chapter to the genre. The players make the game.

Unfortunatly it isn't always possible to get the best players for the game. Often some of those best players don't have the patience to hold out for the best players. Most of Capo and my first Diplogames went that way, we were too eager to get going and just took anyone we could. Even resorting to recruiting at the zone (bad idea).

We need to assemble a dream team list and do our best lobbying to win over those people to this game. People who are good at handling the bells and whistles are good to have on that list as well. All the extra perks enrich the game and shouldn't be discounted. Though good players who play well, post well, and stick around is certainly most important.

I'm going to see if i can bump CapTVK's diploguide thread. That gave me the Dream Team idea before and hopefully it'll refresh it once more.

[Rasputin]

Dream Team ??

I not sure if we want the BEST MP players, more like the Best Diplo players, there is a big difference. As you of course know.

[OzzyKP]

Re: Dream Team ??

Originally posted by Rasputin
I not sure if we want the BEST MP players, more like the Best Diplo players, there is a big difference. As you of course know.

Of course.

The Diplogame FAQ has been bumped. Everyone read and study. You've got a few months to do your homework. Look through some of the old games too. Look for inspiration. Read what they did right, read what they did poorly. Think of what we can do better.

[The Capo]

My two cents...

While I agree with Ozzy's idea for an "All Star Cast" I think that we should at least let two new people into the game. My only defense on this is a pretty good one, well two pretty good ones: GNGSpam (aka Chris) and Drake.

Let's be honest, if it wasn't for my ritual of allowing at least two newbies into the Diplogames Drake and Chris would probably have never gotten into it, at least not when they did, and they're both amazing Diplogamers. And Oz, the same could be said for the two of us, although we sort of played our role in reviving the Diplogame genre, which took a nose dive after getting a bad rap for being "weakling games." I think I speak for players and spectators alike when I say that HOTW2 probably destroyed any notion that Diplogames are for the "peaceloving weaklings."

Therefore if we don't add in new players we won't develop, no matter how forward thinking and innovative we are. I'm all for guys that can run with the diplo-torch, but I still think we need a couple of newbies to keep the genre fresh and interesting.

And yes, I totally agree with Rasputin when I say that time should be alloted at least to figure out how to personalize the game to HOTW3 a little more, such as national flags and tweeks to things that may need tweekin'.

I think, if possible, the AI in the Americas should have a different technology tree than those of us in the Old World, if enough space is given (as far as "test techs" go) this is more than possible. This way we can give them cultural specific units, or rather culturally different units than our own, which would also add an aspect to the game, they may even get their own wonder...

According to our timetable we probably have around four or five months to get this thing planned and set up. Which is a nice amount of time, and I hope I don't have to say this but it needs to be said so we are on the same page; HOTW3 does not start until HOTW2 ends.

So on with the discussion...

[OzzyKP]

Re: My two cents...

Originally posted by The Capo
While I agree with Ozzy's idea for an "All Star Cast" I think that we should at least let two new people into the game. My only defense on this is a pretty good one, well two pretty good ones: GNGSpam (aka Chris) and Drake.

Yea I know, and the standard policy of letting a few newbies in should stand. I had thought of this when I was posting, but didn't think it necessary to include.

Of course we have to be careful selecting who to introduce as well. I think Rasputin is much of a newbie to Diplogames (unless he did some before HOTW2) He only came in as a late sub for HOTW2, so I think he could possibly fill a newbie slot.

We need to carefully screen who wants in though. Let those interested now sub some in HOTW2 as an interview (not to suggest that HOTW2 is a trial run for 3, it certainly is an amazing game itself.)

I hate taking this stance but I think a tighter control of who's allowed in needs to be undertaken. I really hate this elitist way of doing it, and I really hated it when i was trying to look for people a year ago. But if we really want to push the limits of quality we should give it a try.

If we think someone has faults as a diploplayer it should be candidly pointed out. (you all sure made it clear last year why you didn't want me). No one is really in charge of selection, but there should be some method of screening i think.

I hate being the bad guy. Maybe Capo should do this job, hehe, he's real good at it, and always recovers.

But we need to all put our heads together to judge each other and those who want in.

[deity]

Count me in!

I'm keen on this and I reckon we should discuss EVERYTHING because it effects who actually wants to play and precipitates the final cast.

As I was saying to ozzy and drake on icq today I think Europe should be a cramped start with at least 4 'countries' vieing for space and being nudged into coloniation;
maybe a few other civs in Asia and Africa but that's it;
up to 10 civs in the 'old world' , well maybe - using a rolling cast of say 12 players;
no one in the Americas or Australia or Southern Africa.....

And don't forget, those top players in Civ2 MP may not be so good in civ3 where strategy as it was intended will become much more important than all the loopholes many use in Civ2 to generate massive growth etc etc... yeah... yeah... I do it too, but I didn't in my first Civ2 MP game which I won without WLTPD, no ICS, no Incremental rush buying, no tricks at all!! And I enjoyed it more.

[The Capo]

As far as Deity's comments.

I don't think Europe should necessarily be cramped simply because it was in reality. The fact is most areas of the world were "cramped" but there were strong nations that took over eventually since 4000 b.c. Civ has a horrible track record of not accurately portraying how things go, in Civ the nation with the most space is going to do well, which is why my original choice for civ in HOTW2 (The Irish) never saw the light of day, it would have been impossible for me to compete.

This isn't to say that Europe should have only one or two civs, this is to say that everyone should decide who they want to be within the new world and we look at it through that perspective. I think I might be the Turks or Russians in this game. I am still undecided, but we've got a few months.

[deity]

Maybe I can be the Brits?

Depending on the civ3 world map I may like the Brits.

Without sounding too egotistical maybe the more experienced players should have less land?

[Rasputin]

I think Deity is right, if the Map is going to be as big as we think it is then there should be plenty of room for 4 civs in Europe, Spain, Germany, Romans, and Russians all start in Europe, With the Turks (Ottomans might be better name)in the mid east, Egyptains and Zulus in africa (I think Africa is big wnough for 2), Chinese, Mongols, Indians in Asia.


I defiantly think I am still a newbie , got lots to learn!!

I suggest we keep the same Timeslot for the game too. Works reaosnably well. Saturday morning no good for me(Friday night US), perhpas Sunday morning may be ok???

[OzzyKP]

Re: Maybe I can be the Brits?

Originally posted by deity
Depending on the civ3 world map I may like the Brits.

Without sounding too egotistical maybe the more experienced players should have less land?

Yea, that'd be an option for balancing the game a bit.

I haven't heard any concrete numbers for players either. I heard either 8 or 16 as the cap on players.

Europe should be a bit cramped, but not overly so. Perhaps 3 and a half (Turkey being a half). Maybe Britian, France, Russia, and Turkey would be good to have in Europe. Then Egyptians, Indians, Chinese and Zulu. That'd give us 8 humans, then we could have a few AI. If we want more humans we could perhaps get the Persians and a custom African civ.

That split works out well too since it mostly uses the civs that come with the game. I think that truly customizing this stuff may be a pain. If it is a pain and we all stick to the civs that came with the game I'm ok with that. Turkey could be Greece instead. But if customization is possible and not too difficult i'd like to work on creating a Metalhead empire once more. Since I'm fairly good at civ I could be in Europe somewhere, perhaps in France. Or i could be that custom African civ if we do that, I could start in Ethiopia.

Just some thoughts. Like my new pic?