2001 Players Tourney, Round 1, Group D: HAWKHUNTER, BARBARIAN, BOANN, DEITY DUDE

[boann]

we will continue at the 75 bc save as you wish.


on my turn, we all saw the retire screen , then hawk and i saved
at 25 bc without leaving from my turn.
thats all i know for sure.

there was tech stealing going on and some war.
nothing unusual, just a normal game

[Deity Dude]

Markus - I read your post a few times and am not sure how to interpret it as it relates to this. I was not even aware that Ctrl-r caused retirement and, if I read it correctly Ctrl-R causes revolt. I'm not sure if u are saying that because these 2 could not have happened simultaneously that it proves "I did it" or it proves "I couldn't have" or if it is some information that still leaves the situation inconclusive. I can say one thing, the point is moot because it does not apply to me. If I retire from a game I do it thru the menu as I do if I quit or anything else for that matter. The only time I use the keyboard is for moving pieces and the f# keys to check attitude, science advisor etc.

I can only say what happened on my end for certainty. It was 25bc, my turn and I was in republic. I had crashed 2 times already that evening and warned players that I was lagging bad. The last move I made was to land a crusader next to one of Hawk's cities. I then tried to attack and was overruled by my senate. I was then disconnected. When I came back my turn was over and was in Anarchy in 1ad.

I assumed the AI finished my turn and did something to put me into Anarchy.

I didn't have autosave on and have never even seen the save files except when they were briefly loaded during the confusion that day. So, I am now talking about something that happened over a week ago from memory while everyone else has had a chance to review the files. I feel comfortable doing this because I don't need to reveiw the files to make sure my story is in line with the evidence. That is why I thought the "inconsistancies" should be posted here and discussed openly, because I honestly believe that it is impossible to find that I did anything dishonest and would prefer my name to be "cleared" rather then left in doubt.

Cavebear, I appreciate you taking a second look at the situation after reading my point of view and having the guts to reverse your original decision. That's not always an easy thing to do. Also, I would like to apologize, to you and the players, for my comment about no more tournies. It was made out of anger.

To the players, (Boann, Hawk, Barb), I'm sorry for what happened but honestly feel that I did nothing wrong. I do want to remind everyone that the night that this occurred I told Hawk that I was willing to play from the 25bc or 1ad save and wait til the next Oedo year to go back to republic. I had only brought it to this point when others refused to discuss it with me and went straight to Cavebear, thus questioning my integrity in a public fashion. I guess I can understand that reaction, to a certain extent. I too have played my share of "shady players" and have probably jumped to an incorrect conclusion about an honest player because of it. On the bright side, I have a new ISP since then and havn't been getting disconnected as often.

At this point I am willing to let by gones be by gones and hope everyone else feels the same.

I suppose everyone is sick of this by now, I know I am, and I will post nothing more on the subject (unless I feel I need to respond to a possible future post that questions my integrity)

[DaveV]

Unsolicited (and maybe unwelcome ) comments:

It is standard practice for the AI to revolt out of republic when it comes into contact with a player it doesn't like (i.e., when you move adjacent to an enemy unit and one of those annoying pop-ups occur). I guess this is supposed to allow it to declare war without Senate interference.

As Markus said, there is no external trigger that will cause a revolt in a non-democratic government; you have to request the change (and then you must subsequently answer "yes" in a pop-up). AI takeovers are always a disaster for the victim; everyone should save on every turn to make restarting easier if someone is dropped.

[cavebear]

Markus and Dave (and everyone) - Thank you for the helpful explanations. It cleared up some confusion (on my part, at least). It is easy for things to go wrong in surprising ways. I know I have nearly caused a revolution by trying to build a railroad with the cap lock button accidently pressed, for example. I didn't even know about Control-R for revolt. It wouldn't seem so common an action to need a keyboard shortcut, but there it is (helpful programmers).

I do keep the autosave option on, and I usually save each turn individually aside from that. It doesn't take long. Autosave keeps the previous 2 turns, which is usually sufficient for crashes or disputes. If you use the same Leader name from game to game, you need to rename the 2 files or they get overwritten. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone (really!), but you can see how it would have helped.

I remain convinced that no intentional tricks were committed and that the best solution is to re-start the game at 75 BC.

As far as changing my mind about the restart year, I looked at the previous file, saw cities in revolt, and jumped to an inaccurate conclusion. Looking at the files later, I realized there were several possible explanations, most of them innocent ones.

I will also say that it was entirely appropriate for a player to ask me to look at the situation. That remains true for *any* reason at *any* time. I have sometimes done the same of other people in even the most casual game when I did not understand what had occurred. Asking a question is *not* the same as accusing someone of cheating, and I do not believe anyone in this game ever intended to suggest "cheating". I recognize we are all a bit sensitive on the subject, the known holes in the programming being what they are, so I treat any questions as merely requests for an explanation only available to some outside party free to look at all the players positions.

So, let the game proceed, and may no one harbor any ill-feelings or doubts...

[Deity Dude]

so when do we play- im available weeknites and weekends

[boann]

my home computer is down
have new motherboard on order and will be fixed
next week sometime.

[Deity Dude]

boann hows the motherboard coming. let us know when it is ready so we can finish.

[boann]

looks like my computer is up and running again.
so whens a good time to continue
im working all day today and not sure when ill be getting off.
when are you guys available?